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HVAC-ology
Welcome to "HVAC-ology," your podcast for all things related to commercial HVAC systems! Whether you're an experienced technician, an HVAC engineer, a curious business owner, or simply someone interested in understanding the parts and pieces of HVAC systems, this podcast is perfect for you.
In each episode, our expert hosts and enthusiasts delve into the complex world of commercial heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC). We cover everything from the latest equipment technology advancements to practical tips.
Music credits: "Bring Me Back" by Deleveled (instrumental for intro and with lyrics for outtro).
HVAC-ology
HVAC-ology Episode 10: Design-Build vs Plan-Spec Projects
Ever wondered how to navigate the complexities of project delivery in the world of architecture and engineering? Get ready to uncover the secrets of the design-build method vs. plan and spec.
This episode promises to equip you with not only HVAC knowledge but a few tidbits of financial wisdom from "The Millionaire Next Door" and some lighthearted moments with fun words and movie references.
We're thrilled to welcome Jeff Bernagozzi, a seasoned architectural and engineering expert from GMK Associates. Jeff shares his journey from Lexington High School to his current role, shedding light on the selection process for A&E firms and the unique challenges of HVAC-focused design-build projects. Through engaging anecdotes and practical advice, you'll learn about the Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) concept, value engineering, and how different project delivery methods stack up against each other. Discover why the design-build approach fosters stronger relationships among stakeholders and significantly reduces the need for change orders.
Lastly, we spotlight the next generation of architects with a heartwarming look at Jeff's daughter, Bella, who is blazing her own trail at Clemson University. Jeff underscores the importance of internships, highlighting Hoffman's initiative that provided invaluable experience to over 30 interns.
We wrap up with ways to connect with Jeff and GMK Associates for your future projects, whether they’re big or small. Don't miss this episode rich in knowledge, inspiration, and heartfelt stories.
Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and share with anyone who might be interested!
Welcome to the HVACology Experience, where we talk about all things HVAC industry, topics that are so hot, they are cool.
Speaker 3:We are in a very special moment in time. Kelly Patterson, Do you know what that moment is?
Speaker 1:You know what I can guess, but I really would prefer that you say it, we're in the double digits of podcasting. What.
Speaker 3:This is episode 10.
Speaker 1:Episode 10. I can't believe we've made it this far.
Speaker 3:Kelly, this has just been a breeze to do. Hadn't this been so easy for you.
Speaker 1:It truly has. I have nothing but time, nothing but time.
Speaker 3:Kelly, I did a little bit of research before our episode and did you know that from November 2022 to November 2023, the average household debt has gone up 4.8% across our country? Here's another interesting fact Do you know that, due to inflation, household income has actually decreased by 2.3%? Actually decreased by 2.3%? So I say that not so much of a political statement, more of an economic statement of you know, it's just to make sure that you're wise with your money. These days We've been talking a lot about buying businesses and investment vehicles and ESOPs, and it just got me thinking about what is an individual looking at right now. And it just got me thinking about you know what is an individual looking at right now?
Speaker 3:And I read a book a long time ago called the Millionaire Next Door and he had this really simple thing to go by. He says take your household income and then multiply it by the age of the oldest person contributing to that income so if you are married, the oldest spouse and divide that number by 10. So if you take let's just say you're the age of 30 years old and you're married and you make your household income, for easy numbers, $100,000, so that's $3 million and then divide that by 10. Ten, that says that you should have about three hundred thousand dollars in assets. So, yeah, assets, of course, the, the the total of your net worth would be your assets minus anything that you owe, right? So that's a a good rule of thumb and the the thing that the author says and things that I make sure to always say as well as is you know, don't sweat it if you're underneath that, just let that be a marker or something to kind of try to get after and obtain.
Speaker 1:And just to clarify does that mean $300,000 in assets at the age of 30?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that would mean that if you have a house and it's worth $200,000 and you owe $150,000 on it, then that $50,000 would go towards that, right, right?
Speaker 1:Right, got it I'm clear.
Speaker 3:So a fun word that I've been using lately is skedaddle. It seems like that's something that I used a lot when I was younger. Do you have a fun word that you use every now and again? Kelly Patterson. My favorite fun word is serendipitous oh man it just makes me happy wasn't there a movie, like in the 90s, called serendipity?
Speaker 1:I you know what I don't know, but I should look for it our, our guest today is shaking his head.
Speaker 3:Yes, so he knows yeah, I think it was a.
Speaker 1:it was a rom-com kind of deal, I believe I'm assuming that something really lucky happened to them, just very out of the blue would be my guess.
Speaker 3:You know, talking about luck, I like to use the word this is fortuitous, and I grabbed that from the movie Tombstone, which I have that movie about completely memorized. I used to completely have it memorized. So we've gone on a big tangent.
Speaker 1:We really have, we really have.
Speaker 3:To pull it back. We already said episode 10. And if you like our podcast, what should they do, kelly? They should like follow subscribe. All right, and also I've done a really bad job of introducing my co-host, Kelly Patterson, and I am also your co-host, Ryan Hudson. And today, thank you. And today we have Mr Jeff Bernagazzi. Hey Jeff, hey Ryan, hey Kelly, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:Good Jeff.
Speaker 3:Doing very well. Thank you, I really appreciate your willingness to come on this podcast. I have been thinking about you the day that we came up with the name HVACology, because, one, you're my brother from another mother and two, I have wanted to talk to you for a long time just about the world of A&E firms and that is, architect and engineering firms, and I've wanted to kind of talk about the design, build versus plan, spec world. What should an owner do when they're trying to figure out where to start if they want to build a building? I'm hoping we get to dive through that and really just talk about how the process, how the beauty pageant, works out when an owner is trying to select an A&E firm Sound good.
Speaker 4:Sure, that sounds great. I think I can help out.
Speaker 3:Excellent. So, before we get started, one of the things that we like to let folks know is how in the world did Jeff go from graduating high school to where you were at with GMK and Associates?
Speaker 4:Sure, I can give you that long, boring history. So I grew up in New York, long Island, new York, and in 1987, my family moved down to South Carolina. That was a slight culture shock, I bet. We moved to Lexington, south Carolina. After high school I graduated from Lexington High School. After high school I went to the University of South Carolina to study mechanical engineering.
Speaker 4:And about my junior year, myself and another student, jody Reichard, who you also know, yep, we needed a part-time job. We were working at Walmart. We were like, hey, maybe we should get a job that's more suited to what we're trying to do in our lives. So we went to the student lounge, opened up the Yellow Pages and just looked up engineering firms. So we both he picked one and I picked one he got a job at one and I got a job at a small mechanical firm in town.
Speaker 4:Well, two years later we graduate I got a job at the same firm he was interning with. That was an MEP firm. So I went from a mechanical only firm to a firm that did mechanical, electrical and plumbing and fire protection design. So it was a little bit of a step up. And then, a couple of years later, in 1999, I had the opportunity to join GMK Associates, which, gmk Associates, is a totally different animal. We're an AE firm but we also do design, build construction, we do construction management, we do interior design. So we have a lot of different facets of our company and so it really makes us unique in the marketplace. In December 03, I was promoted to director of engineering for GMK Associates and about two years ago I've moved more into the managing partner realm of the entire company years ago, I've moved more into the managing partner realm of the entire company.
Speaker 3:I tell you I have been highly impressed, Jeff, with GMK and just how it has the ability to touch so many different parts of the business, as far as building buildings, retrofitting buildings. I've been very impressed and the work and the quality of work that comes out of it's been very impressive to me.
Speaker 4:We appreciate it and you know we've been doing it a while. This company opened in 1966. So we've been around Columbia. If you look at a lot of the major buildings in the Columbia area Cogar Center, our building, which is the tallest building in South Carolina those are all GMK designs. So it's something we've been doing for quite a while.
Speaker 3:Very cool. So if you could kind of walk the listener through. What is plan and spec? We throw that word out pretty quick. We almost make it sound like one word because we throw it out so fast together. And then also what does design build mean?
Speaker 4:Sure, yeah, I'll start with plan and spec.
Speaker 4:It's also known as design bid build and this is the traditional project delivery method that you see a lot with, especially state agencies, federal agencies, local school districts and I'll tell you why in a moment. But the first thing you do as an owner in a design bid build delivery method is you hire your architect. Once you hire your architect, you work with the architect to create a set of plans and specifications that eventually you put out to bid. So even though you have good cost estimates during that process, you don't really know what the price of the building is going to be until you put it out to bid. So once you get those plans 100%, you put it out to bid to contractors. Typically, a general contractor would bid on a building. He'll give you a price or they'll give you prices and typically you pick the low bid.
Speaker 4:Well, there's a lot of benefits and drawbacks to this method, you know. Some of the benefits is that you hold the design intent. You know you've worked with an architect through this whole process. You have exactly what your building wants you want it to look like. You know what the skin is of the building. You know what systems you're putting in the building. Let's say you want it to look like. You know what the skin is of the building. You know what systems you're putting in the building. Let's say you want a water-cooled chiller instead of air-cooled chillers. You've held to that design intent with the documents that you put out to bid.
Speaker 4:So the low bid comes in, and sometimes the low bid contractor is not the best contractor, so you have to deal with that as an owner. And also as an owner you're not only managing the architecture portion but you're also managing the construction portion. So you have two contracts. That's the main differentiator between design-build and design-bid-build. Where design-build, you have one contract. Some other drawbacks with the design bid build project delivery method is that sometimes designers aren't perfect, Things are left out, which causes change orders. Since it's a low bid contractor, they don't build in the money to pay for these change orders, so that goes directly back to the owner. Typically this also leads to some finger pointing along the way Not that that ever happens, but sometimes it does and so it could be a little bit controversial on who pays for what in that type of delivery method, on who pays for what in that type of delivery method. So again, the low bid, getting the lowest price for your construction, is why a lot of state agencies and federal agencies go with this method.
Speaker 3:Now design build, the owner goes out, Jeff one second yeah, yeah, Kelly, I think you had a question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a quick question Do you have to take the lowest bid? So, for example, what if you have worked with this contractor in the past and you know that there is going to be trouble, there's going to be change orders, and do you have to take it unless the contractor was deemed not responsive or that they weren't able to bid your project.
Speaker 4:You would have to by law, a lot of the state of South Carolina law. You would have to take that low bid contractor.
Speaker 3:Okay, now Jeff, you can if there is an ability to challenge that contractor. Is that correct, because I think I've seen that happen before.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So if the contract comes in too low and you know that they possibly have left something out, it's a good practice to sit down with the contractor, run over the project before the project is officially awarded and give them the opportunity to back out on their price if they say left some major piece of equipment out. And then you can go to the second low bidder on the list.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, jeff, before we go to design and build, I'll tell you in a previous life, when I was dealing a lot with plan and spec we will name no names today, uh but there would be certain people that would win work and it was like the air went out of the room for everyone else to where they're. Like, we've seen this guy's work, we know it's terrible. I cannot believe that they're going to go forward with that one and it would just. And then they would go forward with it and everything that everyone talked about presumed would happen actually ended up happening and like, huh, that's the 10th time we've seen that. You know, I think that could be a really that's a frustrating thing, I think in the plan and spec world.
Speaker 4:It's very frustrating and you know the owner looks to us to try to, you know, bring the project through the finish line. We do our best to control the contractor through the finish line. We do our best to control the contractor. You know we have our hands tied to a certain extent because we do not hold their contract. The owner holds their contract so we cannot hold money against them unless the project is not where it's supposed to be by the pay apps.
Speaker 3:Now you can do, you can make qualifying comments in there that they have to like you shall have. You know, have this many people with this type of skill set or something like that, right?
Speaker 4:That's correct. You can qualify by X amount of years of experience or X amount of projects of this type. Those are all things that you can do during the bidding process process, which is really not discriminating.
Speaker 3:It's just you want to make sure that the people who are doing this have the resume to be able to actually accomplish a very complex building.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely, and you'd always want to check their level of licensure, what their maximum size project that they can do by their license, and that gives you a good idea of whether or not they can handle the project that you're looking at building with them.
Speaker 3:Sure, and also insurance capabilities as well. Absolutely Very good. Okay, so thank you for letting us pause there for a little bit. On the plan and spec, so you were getting into design build. Kind of walk us through what design build is and how it's different from what we just went through.
Speaker 4:Sure. So the main difference is that instead of the owner going to the architect first, they go to a design builder and they procure that single contract with the design builder, and the design builder then goes out and hires his designers, his consultants and his subs and hires his designers, his consultants and his subs. What's great about this process is that all of the parties work as a team to develop the set of plans all the way through the construction of the project. So all of the players are involved in the planning. This also gives you better costing control. As you're developing the plans typically around the design development level, right when you're getting into construction documents, you can get a good handle on what the cost is going to be for the project.
Speaker 4:I know our firm and a lot of other firms will give a guaranteed maximum price at that time, a GMP. So you're basically signing the contract with the owner and you're going to say it's going to be X amount of dollars. Now it's up to the design builder to keep those cost controls in check during the construction. Now this is where it differentiates a little bit between design bid build is that, since the contractor has to keep that price set, they have to do the value engineering of the project before it actually is starting to build. So this might be an owner might not get the skin of the building that they want. Maybe they wanted a brick building. Well, it's coming in over budget. They work with the owner and say, well, we can give you this type of skin on the building.
Speaker 4:It'll save you X amount of dollars and get us back into the budget of the project, or we're going to go to an air-cooled chiller instead of a water-cooled chiller system, You're still getting the intent of the final design, but maybe not all the pieces and parts that you were originally trying to get into the project. It also lets you fast track the project because, as I mentioned before, in the design build you're actually working with the architect issuing drawings. If it comes in over budget at that point you have to value engineer it, re-bid it, then you get the contractor on board and then you start building the project. Well, when you're doing design build, we're doing that costing and value engineering during building the project. Well, when you're doing design build, we're doing that costing and value engineering during the design process, so we can jump right into construction and and and get the project on an escalated or on a quicker time frame. That seems like a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:That seems like everybody should do it that way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's a good option for a lot of people. I don't know that everybody should do it that way. There's also a lot of other types of delivery methods out. There's, you know, cm at risk. There's IPD. We do what's more IPD integrated project delivery because all of the designers, instead of going out getting a design builder and they're getting subs who are getting the designs done, or they're hiring outside architects and engineers, we're all in-house, so we're all part of one team from the get-go. So we call it more of an integrated project delivery method, a part of one team from the get-go, so we call it more of an integrated project delivery method.
Speaker 3:You know already you are proving to be an excellent guest on this show, because you've actually explained all the acronyms you've been throwing out. We've had people on here, man, they are just throwing out industry acronyms left and right and I'm like this is something that nobody, unless you're a part of our industry, is going to understand. But yeah, thank you Jeff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, our industry is full of acronyms. It is HVAC ology and point.
Speaker 3:So, uh, jeff, you know, kind of, the reason why I like design build so much is is, one, I think there's a lot of strong relationships that get built through design build. And two, I feel like there's this team atmosphere. It's like we want to try and hit a home run for each other and we want to try to hit a home run for the end client, the building owner, the, the, the end client, the, the building owner, uh, and it just it just seems like there's this, this great community in design build whenever you do those kinds of projects.
Speaker 4:Do you kind of feel that way too? Yeah, absolutely, cause all the stakeholders are involved in the process. You know, uh, there's no finger pointing. You can only point a finger at yourself at that point as the contractor, as the contractor or as the design builder, you know. Another great thing is there's typically no change orders for the owner. The guaranteed maximum price is the price they pay for the building all the way through completion, so there's not those surprises towards the end of the project.
Speaker 3:Yeah so, and kind of bringing it back to strictly HVAC, since that's kind of the whole premise of the podcast. So there's also design-build opportunities and just HVAC only. And I can't tell you, kelly, how many times I've called up Jeff and I can almost hear him cringing on the other end of the phone because I'm like Jeff, I've got a really weird one for you. How many times have you heard me say that A million times.
Speaker 4:Whenever Ryan calls me about a project, I know it's going to be something real interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's normally process related. I'm calling him up and say, hey. So this customer called and he's got to take 130 degree chemical X and we got to take it down to 20 degrees and it's got to happen in 30 minutes, otherwise the fermentation process is completely ruined, and Jeff's like okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1:What a good sport. What a good sport.
Speaker 3:Oh man, um, very good. So we've kind of talked through, uh what? Um, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, before we go on, kind of stick there for a minute. So on HVAC, kind of only so if I can talk for a minute.
Speaker 3:So what happens is that we've got these great relationships with end users and they'll come to me and say, hey, you know, we've got this situation where we need to add redundancy to our plant, because every time our power goes out we don't have any kind of plan. Or whenever the heat of summer comes up, this chiller is running as hard as it can. We really need to add another one. And so what happens there is I say, you know, that sounds great. And I have enough of an engineering background to be able to say, okay, well, this is kind of how I would do it. And then what I will do from there is I'll say, hey, let me pull in my team.
Speaker 3:And the next phone call I usually make is to a mechanical engineer like Jeff and I say, hey, jeff, here's kind of what the project looks like and here's what I was thinking. And you know Jeff will say, hey, that's good, or maybe I would do it this way. And then you know, what we can do is we can do it to where we just do the drawings, to where we have kind of both conceptual drawings for the owner to approve, and then we can do what's called as-built, which is basically as-built, is as the bill, as this is how it was built and this is how it ended up being, and or we can do it to where it's stamped. And, jeff, kind of walk me through what's the from a liability standpoint for you. And then also, you know, is there a cost difference if you do basically a sketch plus as-built versus you actually having to put your stamp on it? What's the difference between the two? What is the liability that's associated with that for you? Kind of walk us through that.
Speaker 4:Sure, I don't know that there's necessarily a difference in the liability. As the engineer of record, you know, regardless of whether I've stamped the drawing or not, I'm still going to be responsible for that drawing and that project that goes out. Typically, the state agencies, when they go to review our documents, require them to be stamped and sealed. It's also a way to tell that those were the final documents that went out and they weren't a progress set, you know, because we'll sign and seal them at the end of the design period. So, yeah, I don't think there's a big difference.
Speaker 4:Where the cost difference comes in is whether or not I'm just giving you a sketch or a full design with specs and plans and construction administration, because we don't like to see a project where we're brought into the project for the design, hand it over to the contractor and they build it without ever talking to us. We like to be a part of the construction process, review the submittals, which is not only good for you, it's also good for us, making sure that the design intent was implemented during the project. So you bought the equipment that we specified, or equipment that performs exactly the way we specified and installed it. So there's no problems for the owner down the road.
Speaker 3:So there's no problems for the owner down the road, sure, and some examples of that is. You know, whenever he's saying you know, reviewing the product data that I'm looking at purchasing, let's just say I'm the one that's going to be installing it. What he's looking for is things like you know, is it going to actually provide the tonnage that we said? Is it going to provide the temperatures that we said? Is it going to have the require the same max fuse size? Because if that power is greater than what is existing, let's just say, let's say it's a swap out. We could be talking about having to run brand new power to that piece of equipment and you don't think much about something like that. But that can be a huge cost because if that's an existing building, you have no idea where those wires are running through that building.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:We've gone through now design-build, we understand better about plan and spec and what's the difference between the two. And then now let's talk about how in the world does an end user, a building owner they have this idea, they want to build a building Walk us kind of through just a high level, the steps of that. Where does the architect come in, where does the engineer come in, where does the interior designer come in, where does the GC get involved? And mechanical contractor and selecting equipment, kind of just high level. Kind of walk me through that.
Speaker 4:Sure, I guess when those people come in and get involved in the project would be which delivery method did you choose? Did you choose design build, where you would go out and find the design builder and let them take care of it? That's a great delivery method if you don't have a lot of experience building projects. Experience building projects. Some of the more sophisticated clients that have project managers on their staff will go through the design bid build process and I think let's start with that. The first thing that you have to determine is what type of project are you building? So you want to find an architect. If you're building a laboratory, you want to find an architect that has experience building laboratories. You don't want to go find an architect that's only done schools or only done commercial buildings. That's probably the most important step right out of the gate. You would typically send out a solicitation to a bunch of different architects and they'll respond to it if they're interested, and then you would shorten that list down and then you would interview those architects. What's really important about the interview is you want to make sure you're going to have a good relationship with this architect. Relationships are so key with your architect and your design team because you're going to be working with them for maybe months on end and you want to make sure those are the people with your vision in mind. They're going to keep your vision in mind when they design. They're not going to go in there and just design it the way they want to. There are architects that do it that way, but if you're an owner and you have a vision, you want to make sure that your architect is going to listen to your vision and I would say you'd want to have those architects be local architects. I think that's something that is pretty important because you're going to get a lot more responsiveness out of local architects. You know, if you've got an issue on your building and your architect is in Michigan, you know there's a lot of logistics to get them down here to look at it. If you have an architect that's in town and there's plenty of good architects in our region they can be on site literally in hours if needed and they're a lot easier to deal with, to meet with, and I think overall, you have better project turnout with local architects. So that's one way you would get an architect on board through that process.
Speaker 4:Another one that we see with state agencies is called an IDQ process, which is indefinite delivery quantity. I know it makes no sense. They used to call it IDC, which was indefinite delivery contracts, but they changed the name a few years back and what that is is an owner like, let's say, the University of South Carolina. They will solicit for mechanical engineers, say, a bunch of mechanical engineers would respond to that and they'll at that point interview a group of five of them and maybe three of them get IDQ contracts. And an IDQ contract is a two-year term where you're on contract and it's a maximum of, say, two to $500,000 in fees. Over that two years, any one delivery contract can be up to $100,000 to $500,000 in fees. Over that two years, any one delivery contract can be up to $100,000 or $150,000. So you're basically on call.
Speaker 4:If they have a small project let's say they have a chiller that needs to be replaced they don't have to put that out to solicitation, get bids, et cetera. They go right to their list, choose one of their engineers or architects and get them on board and start working on the project. As long as it's a smaller type project, well, this method gets them familiar with all the architects and engineers in the area. You know. You know which architects and engineers do better on what type of projects, so they have their specialty and that really simplifies the decisions on the bigger projects when they come down the road, because you already have a relationship with them you've worked with them uh, you know what their strengths and weaknesses are. So I think the idq process is an excellent way for larger owners like universities and state agencies to build those relationships with the architects and engineers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know the engineering group that the architect ends up selecting. They always seem to be the Debbie Downer of the group because they're like hey, we've designed this three-story building and it's the engineer's job, like Jeff, to say, yeah, but you left me three inches in between floors to put in duct work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they tend to do that sometimes, but none of our architects do that. We've trained them pretty well. They give us the right amount of space that we need for all of our equipment. You know, it's very important that you have the proper clearances and make maintenance for this equipment easier for the end user. That's one thing that I've seen on some projects that you know they don't think about that, and those are the things that a good designer will think about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. They'll come back to you and they say, well, do we really need that pipe right here? And you say, well, I don't know. Do you want toilets? Yeah.
Speaker 4:We're going to push the ceiling a little higher. We want slightly higher ceilings.
Speaker 3:We're going to move it up a foot. Yeah, you know you were talking about getting local folks to make sure that they're doing your job, a problem that I actually ran into a long time ago. I was doing a job that actually an engineer, I think, from Maine, had designed for South Carolina, and he left out this little thing called humidity in kind of his calculations, and it's you know, being local living in it, you know that, hey, I got to make sure that we dehumidify this space, because South Carolina is atrocious when it comes to humidity, right.
Speaker 4:Exactly. Yeah, I think it's important to know that stuff. I wouldn't want to go to North Dakota and design an HVAC system because I just don't know how they design systems up there. It's very particular to the region that you live in.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yep, no, I completely agree. So we've done a good job, I think, of walking through design, bill, plan and spec. I think we've done a good job of kind of understanding where folks fall into the pecking order, of when you grab people on board to select them, and then also kind of how that selection process looks. Now I really appreciate you kind of taking the time to go go through uh all of that with us. You know, uh, kelly, one thing I wanted to make sure that I brought up was that I had chance to.
Speaker 3:I have known about jeff's daughter, uh, bella, for a while. However, uh, she is kind of following uh jeff and not really his exact footsteps, but kind of industry wise uh footsteps. And she's doing uh, architecture, I believe, at Clemson university. That's right, yeah. And I tell you, very, very impressed with Bella. I just uh talking with her. She's very confident. She understands what's going on, kind of uh, you know, taking the, the engineering hat off and hat off and putting the dad hat on. You know the. I think it's so important that next generation that I think it speaks a lot that the next generation is interested in what their parents are doing. In that vein, kind of how did you get her interested, or did you have anything to do with getting her interested in wanting to do architecture?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's interesting. When she was a kid, like a lot of people, built a house and that whole process taking her through looking at houses to get ideas. She just loved that. She loved going to the Parada homes and looking through all the houses.
Speaker 4:At one time she was really interested in getting into interior design, but earlier on I didn't know whether or not she wanted to be an engineer. I wanted to get her interested in engineering or architecture. Her mom is in the medical field. We tried to get her interested in that. Well, she wasn't having any of that. She couldn't, she wasn't, she did not have the stomach for the medical world. So so she she was interested in architecture and engineering and interior design. So I brought her into work while she was in high school I think maybe her sophomore year and took her to a boiler room down downtown here. She did not like that too much. So I think we it was hot and nasty and she said I don't think I want to do that, dad, but she really did like the, the optics of pretty buildings and beautiful interiors. So she started to pursue the architecture side In the school district that we go to in Lexington.
Speaker 4:It's pretty interesting because you're setting your career path very early in your high school career. So she went towards architecture and engineering and technology. So she actually took architecture and engineering classes while she was in high school, which I think gave her a real leg up in moving into her college career. She's a lot smarter than me. She's never made a B in her entire life straight A's. I was a straight C student, so I don't know. She must get that from her mom and she's pursuing that path. She's interning with us over the summer, which is also a great thing as a dad to to be able to see her uh work and work with her and pay for her lunch every day. It's a little expensive but uh, it's definitely worth the cost.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's great man. Absolutely. And then Kelly, I believe Hoffman has done an internship program as well. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:We absolutely have done an internship program this year. We have I believe it's over 30 interns this summer across all of our territory. They're doing a great job. They're amazing young people.
Speaker 4:That's fantastic, Giving those opportunities to kids it's just immeasurable. I mean I wish I had that opportunity when I was in school, before I actually got my first job in engineering. I wish I had an opportunity to look at different industries and really figure out what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3:But if you would have done that, jeff, you wouldn't have the knowledge you do with Walmart. That's true, that's very true, so true.
Speaker 3:So true. Well, jeff, thank you so much for your time. I think we are better for it. I feel like I learned a lot, you know, especially when you started getting out talking about the other platforms that people have beyond plan, spec and design build. That was very helpful. Thank you for explaining that. I'm actually excited about going back and listening to this episode, kelly, what did you learn in this? Did you learn anything new? Before we go beyond that?
Speaker 1:Okay, so for years I've heard about plan, spec and design build. I kind of knew what they were right, just vaguely. But I have a much better understanding of what design build actually entails now, and so I very much appreciate that. That really robust look at it. Glad I can help. I like it.
Speaker 3:Jeff, if folks are listening to this and they are wanting to build a building, how in the world do they get in touch with you?
Speaker 4:Well, they can go to our website wwwgmkacom, that's gmkassociatescom, and contact us or contact you, and they can get K? Acom, that's GMK associatescom, um, and contact us or contact you and they can get in contact with me there you go. We would love the opportunity to work with anybody out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I've noticed that about y'all Y'all are willing to take on all kinds of of different things, from the very small one to the massive uh uh project. Well, very good. Well, that ends episode 10, our first in the double digits, and I had a great time and thank you all for listening.
Speaker 1:Bye. Thank you so much, bye-bye took a rocket past saturn.
Speaker 2:Things don't seem to matter much to me anymore, got lost inside a daydream, get sick of all schemes they play on their machines, lost so many words as I got older. You would have thought I was a store term and I'm on your love order. I accidentally wrote these words down, thought all the best of me faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes 20 years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes, the words inside of me, me. I drove an hour to see you. Things just seem to matter more to me anyway. I got lost in reality. No answers to cancer. We never got to talk. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:The best of you faded in an endless sea, but you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes 20 years of staring at that freckle on my left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me? You always bring me back At your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring At that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside. But you always bring me back at your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder who would have thought all I needed? We'll be right back. You were always inside of me. You were always a part of me.
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