HVAC-ology
Welcome to "HVAC-ology," your podcast for all things related to commercial HVAC systems! Whether you're an experienced technician, an HVAC engineer, a curious business owner, or simply someone interested in understanding the parts and pieces of HVAC systems, this podcast is perfect for you.
In each episode, our expert hosts and enthusiasts delve into the complex world of commercial heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC). We cover everything from the latest equipment technology advancements to practical tips.
Music credits: "Bring Me Back" by Deleveled (instrumental for intro and with lyrics for outtro).
HVAC-ology
A Journey of Airflow and Innovation with Nick Paschke of DuctSox
This episode delves into the innovative world of DuctSox, a game-changing fabric duct system transforming HVAC applications. Nick Paschke shares insights on the journey, the technology behind DuctSocks, and the impact of eco-friendly solutions on the HVAC industry.
• Overview of DuctSocks and its innovative approach to air distribution
• Nick Paschke's unique journey from diverse jobs to HVAC leader
• Importance of airflow in cold food processing environments
• Eco-friendly advantages of fabric ducts over metal ducts
• Notable projects like Allegiant Stadium showcasing innovative design
• Unique branding opportunities through custom graphics on Duck Socks
• Future trends in fabric ducting and upcoming projects
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Welcome to the HVACology experience, where we talk about all things HVAC industry topics that are so hot they are cool.
Speaker 2:Welcome to season two of HVACology. I am Ryan Hudson with my lovely co-host Kelly Patterson.
Speaker 1:Yay, Hi, Ryan. I've missed you. Kelly, you took the words out of Ryan. I've missed you.
Speaker 2:Kelly, you took the words out of my mouth. I missed you too. So nice to be back in the chair.
Speaker 1:You know what? I have regained some sanity and I'm feeling rested and rejuvenated and super excited about starting up HVACology again.
Speaker 2:Is the reason why you feel rejuvenated? Is because now you are done with your masters.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:Man. Cue applause, cue applause. Yay, so now do I need to call you Master Kelly, like a Jedi Master.
Speaker 1:You don't make me call you Master Ryan. So I feel like Maybe we can both do that. I can call you Master Ryan and you feel like I mean, maybe we can both do that, like I can call you master Ryan and you can call him master Kelly. We can just make that a bit, if you'd like, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we, we are we up to doctor?
Speaker 1:Let's just call each other Doctor doctor, doctor doctor, doctor.
Speaker 2:Uh. So let me ask you this has it been more difficult for you to go to oh, I don't know the gas station, the grocery store, now that HVACology is so famous, like? People are just looking and they're like no, listen.
Speaker 1:Listen, though, I do have a story. Somebody stopped me on my way into work the other day, or not? Not the other day, several months ago, right when we were really heavily into filming. Yeah, it wasn't a police officer that was good. That's another story, ryan. This person stopped me and he was like listen, I've been listening to your podcast and you guys are making HVAC interesting.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was the whole point of this.
Speaker 1:Right, and I've had some of our interns in our intern program. This guy came up to me and he was like listen, I'm listening to you guys while I'm on the treadmill at the gym and I'm like, well, yeah, of course you are. So it's really fun to hear our internal people. I haven't, you know, the gas station isn't a thing yet, but I'm sure it will be a couple more months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're promoting people to better health with we're walking on their treadmill while listening to us talk about air conditioning.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I love it yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep. So, out of all the things we could have possibly kicked off with season two, I'm going to, I'm going'm gonna be honest, I have been super pumped about the opportunity to be able to talk, talk today to duck socks, and I've been wanting to have them on for a while. And today, kelly, you have managed to get us, mr nick paschke, to come and talk to us from duck socks. Hey, nick, hey, how's it going? It is going excelenteente. And just so you know, nick, that is Spanish for excellent.
Speaker 4:I was Spanish Club president in high school, so very small school. But I think it was more popularity than my Spanish skills.
Speaker 2:Man, we have learned something new already, kelly, we have to write that down.
Speaker 1:I love it Bueno bueno.
Speaker 2:So, nick, one of the things that we like to do and I think that we need to keep doing it in season two is to hear from the folks in our business, in our industry. How in the world did they get from graduation to being this guy over at Duck Socks? Can you kind of walk us through that trail, to how we got to today? Real quick for you.
Speaker 4:I can Hopefully I can make it quick. So I grew up in central Wisconsin, so I went to Colby High School and, yes, it is where Colby cheese is originated from, believe it or not. So it's a fun fact, and I did not know what an engineer was coming out of school, but I had experience in math and science. And there I say, my grandparents owned a farm and my dad we built campers. So for me I was very handy. What?
Speaker 3:kind of farm?
Speaker 4:was it Dairy farm? Yeah, about 100 to 200 head of cattle. So I kind of grew up in that circle of central Wisconsin and didn't know any engineers or any experience of people that had gone through school. Actually, I was the first person in my family to go to college. My elders started family or went to the military, but for me I ended up going to school and, using the math and science, went to University of Wisconsin-Platteville, which is a kind of a farming school down in the what we call the driftless area of Wisconsin. If you fun fact, if you didn't know that when the ice shaved Wisconsin, it kind of left part of it untouched, which is the Southwest corner, and so it's a very beautiful part of the state they call the driftless area, but that's where Platteville's at Learning so many new things I know Exactly.
Speaker 1:Nick, you should come on every week.
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't know about that. I talk too much From the school perspective. I worked to put myself through school. At one point I had five different jobs with 17 engineering credits, and the fun different jobs were bartender, ski instructor and janitor and a welder believe it or not for portable welding, and then I was a finished carpenter for the university. So lots of different things going on. All the time I've always had a very diverse activities around me and then, basically, as I finished up school, started working. One of my internships was with a company HVAC, a mechanical contractor company doing work with airflow, and we had done dust collection systems for large companies and so it got me familiar with Airflow. So as I came to graduate, company Right Height was hiring and one of the interviewed but didn't had never heard of Duck Sox or anything to go with it. And, as it turns out, I ended up getting hired and I was the first full-time employee hired dedicated to duck socks Wow.
Speaker 1:That is cool.
Speaker 4:And so because I knew airflow from my internships not from an air dispersion standpoint but very clearly from the functional aspect of moving air through ducks and details and for some reason there was an interest in my personality from the ski, instructing and bartending and everything else that I wasn't just going to be huddled in front of my screen and I think that has worked out quite well.
Speaker 4:And I started with Duck Socks very early on. I was the only employee for a number of years. We've added to that as we've had a pretty incredible team that we've built over the years and my role has changed many times from being developing product to going out and establishing a distribution network and finding partners, just like Hoffman and Hoffman to promote and sell the products, to moving back inside to running marketing for a number of years, running product development for a number of years and then, as we develop more and more technical products, the interest and need was to have me move back out to the field to reconnect with customers and our distribution and interpret you know how exactly we apply these products and the role was eventually identified as a business development manager. But that's what I'm still doing, so I get involved with very specific accounts tend to be larger, might tend to be global in scale, or larger applications, whether they range from professional sport venues to college campuses, to wherever Our team will pull me in if they need some level of expertise.
Speaker 2:That might be helpful, very cool. Might be helpful, very cool. You know, kelly, if I can brag on Nick and the other folks that we've interviewed that have a past in farming or have family that's farming, those are are they not, the most resourceful people you know.
Speaker 1:So resourceful and so interesting. Their interests are always varied, always.
Speaker 2:I guarantee you, nick, the reason why you appreciate engineering and have the ability to weld carpentry, everything is because of farming. I guarantee you 100%, because you're out in the middle of nowhere. You've got to figure a solution out right then and there.
Speaker 4:If you break it, you have to fix it.
Speaker 1:Right. And there's no time to run to the Home Depot. That's 800 miles away, right?
Speaker 4:No. That's awesome it's that mentality of never let an inanimate object beat you.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 2:How many employees do.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I interrupted you, ryan. I'm sorry. How many employees does Duck Socks have right now?
Speaker 4:Ooh, that's a good loaded question. I would um, I hadn't counted I would say probably in the neighborhood of 50 to 55.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So from one to 55, that's huge yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, it's a lot of shared resources too with our parent company. So I mean, some of those, those experiences, are shared. It's hard to count. That's why.
Speaker 1:I was kind of indicating that those experiences are shared.
Speaker 2:It's hard to count. That's why I was kind of indicating that. So, nick, do you get to wear the?
Speaker 1:t-shirt that says I'm number one? I hope so.
Speaker 4:No, but I will honestly say that our team almost diligently introduces me as that almost every time I'm in the field.
Speaker 2:It's number one, All right here's yeah. Well, that can be a Star Trek Next Generation reference.
Speaker 4:right there it's almost embarrassing it to a point, because it has been a long time it's 30 years. It's been fantastic, though, and its stories are just continuing to grow. That's the really fun part.
Speaker 2:That's very cool. So, nick, my background you might not know this was I worked for a consulting engineering firm for years and that's where I first and this was like 20 years ago and that's where I first heard about duck socks, and really the only whenever we were applying or speccing out duck socks. It was whenever we were talking about pools, indoor pools, and the reason why is is because the corrosion element or the corrosive environment that is a, a pool area, kind of I always assumed that that was the genesis of it was that the genesis of it, was that is that a popular thing? And then probably what we need to do as well, nick, when we get into this, is kind of explain what in the world is the product Duck Socks for those that are not in our industry. So maybe start off with Duck Socks and then kind of walk me through the genesis of it.
Speaker 4:Well, I appreciate that, and I mean Duck Socks as a product is essentially a custom-made air dispersion system that just happens to be made out of fabric and for us we manufacture every piece of it for every individual project. So if we identify whether it happens to be a laboratory or a restaurant or a sports stadium, the product is configured and built to the airflow that that space needs, not only the airflow volume coming in but how it's dispersed to make sure that it's comfortable. There's a number of different product components that go into the product. That identifies how it looks when it's deflated, how it lasts, and then if it's air porous so no condensation can happen or no moisture on the product. That makes it healthier, if you will, for the occupants of the building. But that's generally what the concept of the product is, and it really is. It's a large air diffuser and it just happens to be visual and clean and lightweight, easy to install, all of the fun things that come with the product that are disruptively different than what the industry norm has been, and it's been kind of funny to see it come about.
Speaker 4:The genesis of the product, if I can, where it started was food processing, and so if we think about comfort. In your normal HVAC space or heated and cooled space, we've got a pretty large comfort zone. And what's interesting is you get into food processing specifically like red meat or dairy or anything. Suddenly the supplier temperature drops considerably. So you might be in a red meat cutting plant where the space happens to be 38 to 42 degrees. To maintain that temperature your supplier has to be much colder. And if you suddenly look at the workforce that might be in that space to create that environment, the volume of airflow that might be required could create a lot of drafts and those drafts could be uncomfortable for the people. They could also be uncomfortable or cause impact on the product. And the example is, of course, if you have meat on a conveyor and you have a high-velocity air, it dries out and it doesn't have as long shelf life or it has some other issues. But more as a safety side, the people that are working on that production line, if they feel like they're 28 degrees suddenly, it's very uncomfortable and so we put a duct stock in. We leak all of the airflow through the fabric for that type of environment, or all the air breathes through the fabric. Suddenly the draft goes away. The space feels 15 to 20 degrees warmer for the employees while they're maintaining temperature. Plus, there's no risk of condensation because with that air movement they have, and so we actually for a number of years.
Speaker 4:When I first started, I mean that's where I was before of years when I first started. I mean that's where I was before I started with the company. The largest or one of the larger projects that got them to hire me essentially and dedicate was in Tar Heel, north Carolina. So Smithfield Foods, which was Carolina Food Processors at the time. The facility could, I think it was processed 52,000 hogs a day, which is an incredible number. But the amount of movement to product and everything through that space, they really loved their duck socks as to how it makes the environment much more comfortable for their employees and for their product.
Speaker 2:Very interesting, and so I think maybe to go back a little bit for those of you that are not familiar with our industry. So if you walk into a lot of restaurants, one of the big things that they do now is they have these open ceilings so you can kind of see everything above it and where, historically, what we're talking about is where you would see maybe spiral silver aluminum duct Instead of seeing that metal duct. What duck socks is is this fabric that comes and typically can be in a cylindrical shape. But, nick, I think we can do a lot more than just cylindrical now too. Right, we can.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do different surface mounts. We've done quarter rounds. We do an oval. It doesn't look the best but it functions. Quarter rounds, we do an oval. It doesn't look the best but it functions. But we're continually improving and it ultimately every product that we have to your credit. Before we work with engineers throughout the industry to find out what solutions they're looking for and if there's something that our current product doesn't really fit, we have the flexibility to work through and find something that will fit. We have the flexibility to work through and find something that will, and you know whether it be a combination of a part metal, part, fabric system or whichever, we have a lot of flexibility.
Speaker 2:that's really served us well. So from a design standpoint, you know I've ran out of the unit. I've come up because the unit's sitting outside and I've done hard duck 90, hard duck 90. I come through and that transition from that hard duck over to duck socks for both the distribution and for the aesthetics of it, kind of walk me through, if you can, a little bit of the engineering. So you know there's so much CFM or cubic feet per minute that we're trying to up air volume, that we're trying to get delivered into that space. So how do you kind of make sure that the air distributes evenly throughout that?
Speaker 4:SOC. Good question. Yeah, one of the things that we've become experts in is, I mean, I guess let's maybe take a step back If we do have a volume of airflow coming into that space. We'd first want to identify the space and kind of quantify where the air needs to go. So, with working with the engineers, if we have specific zones, we can be very precise about where that air needs to go. And then from there we'd build a roadmap of routing of where the fabric should go or can be placed in the space, Like you said, the silver metal duct or the fabric, that cylindrical shape as it would lead from the supply out to those zones.
Speaker 4:And then from there we would work back and have that design. We'd select the diameters based on the volume of airflow, how much would go into each of those portions of the fabric, and that would let us pick the diameter. And the standard that we look to is try designing with. Our standard is 1600 feet per minute, which is the speed of the air running down the length of the fabric. So that lets us select the diameter based on a volume. And if we wanted to have a quieter system, or if we have a system with a number of elbows or fittings. We would choose a lower number. We might take that energy down, where instead of 1600 feet per minute we might go to 1400 or 1200. Or in some applications that are extremely acoustically sensitive, we can design that diameter much larger, so that air moving down the length is much slower, for much lower noise generation.
Speaker 2:So, to that point, the reason why you can do and correct me if I'm wrong the reason why you can do that high velocity of air is because it being you know, most of the designs are porous. It allows for it to distribute amongst a much larger surface area and then, therefore, you don't have it basically screaming, because it'd be screaming right If it was just going to a couple of diffusers, but with your product it really it's not going to be loud because it's able to distribute amongst a larger volume. Is that right? Do I have that right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we can make a loud system To your point. We can put a few holes in it and let the static pressure be really high. But that static pressure for us, the balance that we work with internally and where this is different than a lot of other mechanical design because as an engineer you traditionally design for you accumulate the static pressure from the farthest diffuser back to the supply, the static pressure from the farthest diffuser back to the supply. And what's different with duct socks is we basically, where the fabric attaches to the metal, we'll establish a flow rate and a static pressure and then from there we take responsibility to account for the quantity of orifices, for the exact airflow to generate that static pressure back, to make sure that we have uniform distribution of air down the length of the fabric.
Speaker 4:The interesting thing you may note that if you look at duck stocks in the space, we often different than metal duck, we typically don't put a lot of reducers in. We typically run a longer run because we're relying on static regain within the system as part of that length to make sure that we get a balanced pressure. And what's interesting about that is the velocity pressure converts so efficiently that with most straight systems at least about 100 foot long or somewhere in that range. We're going to see higher static pressure at the end cap than the beginning. So that's where we developed our adjustable flow device. That's essentially like a fabric damper inside just to help eat up static regain.
Speaker 2:to make sure the system remains more balanced and go ahead so with so to help me with my thought a little bit. So whenever you're doing a hundred feet of a duck socks versus a standard uh run like, are you having to account for more your? I guess the horsepower could stay the same at the motor of the fan or even decrease a little bit. Is that correct?
Speaker 4:That's my understanding for most systems that we can and we can design. We normally design for a half of an inch static pressure but that's a number we assign as part of design. We can design for lower, we can design for higher. It's not always perfectly tuned so that if there is a system where we need to design for a lower pressure an example we did a convention center in Green Bay just across from Lambeau and they in that application they because for local energy code the maximum static pressure could be a quarter inch and it was a substantial volume of airflow. They were 52 inch diameter duck socks in this expo hall but it's operating at a quarter inch because of local energy code.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I think maybe for the listener kind of to, if you could imagine taking a straw, maybe, and putting it in your mouth and then blowing on it and then taking your finger and putting on the end of that straw and then slowly adding pressure to that straw. That is like building up static pressure, uh, and so the less, as you can imagine, it's going to be harder to blow through that straw as you close up that hole, the the more free or the less static we have in the system, the easier it is on the entire system as a whole. So, therefore, getting better energy, yep, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Kind of alluding to what we were talking about earlier about deflating, inflating, one of my favorite things to do, nick, is whenever I go into a gym. So my children have played basketball over the years and so I go into different gyms. I love it when I see the old school duck sock that's hanging there, cause I know when it starts heating up from those players on the court that all of a sudden that unit is going to kick on and it's going to scare the bejeebies out of everybody sitting in that stand when that thing inflates. So, uh, tub, talk to me a little bit about the different generations of duck sock going from that, basically that flat sock that's hanging there whenever it's not expanded to where it's fully expanded to what you guys can do now.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that, thank you, and I think your experience and excitement is not shared by many architects that we work with. I think that's the you've just explained every nightmare that they have. And I think we've had some, definitely some church environments that we've provided product to, that deflated early on. That was not their experience. That was more of a moment, if you will.
Speaker 2:Well, that's just the Holy Spirit, Nick.
Speaker 4:I don't think they felt it the same, but I agree.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, oh well.
Speaker 4:No, we've even had. It's funny because we did have one customer that really liked the fact that the product deflated. They would purposely shut their units off and start them back up at bar time, and this was in Ann Arbor, michigan, so they were telling people to go home with our product, which was kind of interesting.
Speaker 4:But, no, that's been one of the challenges for us as a company was trying to get over the early stigma of the product that deflates, and we really tasked our engineers, with our in-house team of engineers, I should say, from a product development standpoint, in identifying solutions that I mean soft starts definitely help mitigate that. But I think as we look at other solutions, we started adding structure to the product and we have several different grades of structure to the point where we have some products that have rings in it so it no longer deflates fully would not be as exciting of an inflate. Two, we have what we call our SkeleCore product now, which is our full-blown FTS product, which it completely changes the dialogue to, where we basically hang the structure and wrap the fabric around it and then stretch. The frame stretches in length to tighten the fabric around the frame. The frame stretches in length to tighten the fabric around the frame and as we look at our product, the earlier version, that deflates.
Speaker 4:When we look at durability, that product has a warranty in a neighborhood of 10 years. We'd expect 15 to 20 years life expectancy for some of those that cycle a bit, Because, just like anything else, that cycling creates a little bit of stress over time. Else that cycling creates a little bit of stress over time. The fabric isn't likely to fail but it could be a clip or some component that's a durable component that there might be some abrasion or connect contact points. That eventually creates a challenge for the customer to look for a replacement. As we move up in product, where the fabric moves less, the durability extends. Like our FTS product has a 20-year warranty. So as we look at that 20-year warranty, we're expecting a 30 to 40-year life expectancy, because you really would have a hard time seeing when the fan is off. It really does look the same all the time, could you?
Speaker 1:tell me, what FTS means.
Speaker 4:It's a full tensioning system. That's a good question, but essentially every six foot we'd have a full ring with spokes inside the product itself and then that's interconnected down the length. So it's kind of got a spine that runs down the center and actually every one of those rings is connected to the building. So there's no clips or anything on the outside of the fabric that attaches it. The fabric really does just hang on the frame.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the great thing too, just thinking about it now. I've never thought about it, but actually duck socks is a great vibration isolator because you're not gonna get any kind of vibration motion through that, so that's cool.
Speaker 4:To your credit, before it does actually reduce reflective noise because it is a fabric material, right.
Speaker 1:That makes sense Kind of a sound baffle?
Speaker 2:Yep, that is interesting. So I've seen it to where it's just a breathable duct, so it just basically looks like a long tube with nothing really associated with it as far as diffusers, and then I've seen that to where you actually have physical diffusers. So do y'all have the ability to design it to where there is a breathability to the fabric and kind of change the intent of it, if you will?
Speaker 4:To some extent. I mean most environments that we're designing for are fairly stable, so we can design for that. Where there's not a lot of dynamics. We do have some adjustable diffusers that we'll put in the product. Kind of going back to your mention before on pools, we often see putting adjustables in the corners or, you know, off fittings and other areas where it's otherwise challenging to get airflow into, or there might be other architectural elements that we will need airflow to move around if you will.
Speaker 4:Those are some of the areas we see more of that bespoke or adjustable designs. But in many applications we're right now especially in the southeast part of the country or areas where condensation or or there be some concern for that the air porous material really is something that we've been leading with, and so a little bit of air will leak through the fabric itself. But as that air leaks through the fabric, the linear vents or the orifices are going to pick that airflow up and distribute it down into the breathing zone. So it's not airflow that's lost, it's just airflow that's protecting that fabric from being in contact or direct content with the environment that it's in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're really using those diffusers for the sake of the road to be able to get the conditioned air out into a particular spot?
Speaker 4:gotcha yep no, and the range of those orifices will select anywhere from a quarter-inch orifice to, I think, the largest orifice that I've been in contact with. I think we ran nine-inch diameter orifices at the Sphere.
Speaker 2:Very cool. So with this system that is Duck Socks, I've participated in moving over from the engineering side of things to the mechanical contractor side of things to where you know. I had to be an extra hand on the job and the labor that's required to to you to do the snap lock, to put the mastic on, to tape it, to staple it. It just seems like there's a lot of steps that you can get away from now whenever you move over to your product. It sounds like I've done both and it seemed like it was a massive energy saver going over to your product.
Speaker 4:The feedback has been really positive from the field and I think in working with a number of the groups that we do, and really the big push that we've seen from the contracting side has been on the design build where they really like the product because it, to your credit, it does save a lot of time on the installation. Suddenly we're looking at examples of the product goes in a little bit later so it's much easier to access because if you look at your average ceiling, the metal might be hung right away before there is even a roof and where a fabric wait a minute it's more of a finished space. It's much easier to access. It's going to be easier work and I sometimes joke and say that fabric is apprentice friendly because it is something that does not require the skill that sometimes, if you look at the skill required to bend some of the fittings that are required for metal, it's strategically like closer to the equipment room.
Speaker 4:Um, that is a. That is a high level of skill that is needed to bend the metal and make that fit properly. And then, once you get into the space, the fabric itself becomes very easy to install and, uh, the feedback we've gotten aside from that has been boy. It takes a lot less space on a job site. We'll ship a whole container and it's in two Gaylord boxes like a whole convention center is in two Gaylord boxes versus truckloads of metal duct. And when you think about the lay down space in some of these, that's premium in some of these environments. To be able to condense that down to a much smaller footprint is really impactful.
Speaker 4:Well, I would think just from a green standpoint, of all of these different materials now that you can do away with because you're using this fabric duct. Yeah, no, and we've led a little bit in that. We've definitely as a supplier. We have our EPDs, so we've worked with MEP 2040. So some of the design firms that are involved in that might have seen some of our communications there. But from the sustainability side, the surprise for me has been working with certain customers that are really exploring that market much more so, and the feedback we've gotten from their research has been that fabric was 70% less embodied carbon than metal duct Wow.
Speaker 4:And for the use cases where it's been being applied. They're very, very happy yeah.
Speaker 2:Very cool. The maintenance guy completely forgets to put in a new filter, which never happens but forgets to put in a new filter. The unit is in a disgusting environment and all of this debris and dirt has flown through the inside of your duct. So do you have to just take it down and start all over again, or what are your options with something like that?
Speaker 4:No, ryan, that's a good call. Our experience from being in food processing has led us to down to our DNA. We make sure that our product can be cleaned. It often doesn't need to. It's not like it suddenly. It shouldn't function or degrade to the point where it impacts the unit or changes the life expectancy.
Speaker 4:But if you do have particulate in the duct that you do want to clean it, it can be removed and laundered. And the sectional lengths the heaviest individual section of fabric that we manufacture is 26 pounds. So a lot of these commercial launderers. When you look at it they're 100, 150 pound, 200 pound machine. So very easy to clean the product. You take it down, turn it inside out, clean it and be able to put it back up.
Speaker 4:Most will never because they might capture the filters. They may not. But it's something that we've actually worked with companies like Service Masters and developed a nationwide clean-in-place program. So in the event that they the example little Caesars arena in Detroit for the uh uh, the Pistons play as well as uh uh, the Red Wings, right, so they, uh, they have black duck stocks in a large arena and they wanted to have an idea on how to clean it in place. So we developed that with service masters for them, so certainly something that, uh, um, we're very mindful of, but the difference for us us, though, is we don't require maintenance as part of our coverage for warranty, where I think us a number of other providers might have that that catch with their products. We don't.
Speaker 2:So I would bet too that that's a nice option for, in case like there's a fire or something uh, that happens, uh and you get a lot of soot and smoke inside the ductwork, that you have the ability to clean it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, we've. We I've been involved in the market for a long time and I will be honest after. We have customers all around the world and I did follow up with a number of our customers after Katrina and just to see how things had gone for them down on the Gulf Coast. And the feedback was pretty quick that their duck socks was their favorite part because they took it down, they were able to launder it, put it back up in place and they were able to get their units running much earlier than some of the other areas, because if it was metal they'd had to take it fully out and throw it away. And huge feedback from some of our customers in that we value that engagement with our customers highly. That feedback's good.
Speaker 1:So, Nick, you mentioned black duck socks. So one of my very favorite things is going into places and looking up and seeing duck socks and seeing the many different colors that are available. Can you get any color that you want in duck socks? Or are there like like what's the? What are the rules there?
Speaker 2:so kelly's asking because she has been really wanting to have my face printed multiple times on the duck socks and her office is that she's. She's really trying to get to that point that is really what I want that is entirely possible.
Speaker 4:Yes, we have in our fabric technology. We're pretty excited that we can do pretty much anything with the fabric and the one of my the crazier examples that I sometimes share is we worked with a bowling alley in near Fresno and they actually put in the near Fresno and they actually put in the being older, I can only relate it to the 80s, but it's the neon geometric shape, like the neon geometric spandex, and we made a duck socks with all of that going on. If you will, we have another firehouse that we put flames all the way down the duck socks and it looks really cool and there's a number of things that we put flames all the way down the duck socks and it looks really cool and there's a number of things that we can do, and I'm still surprised.
Speaker 4:We do have some customers that have genuinely paid for their HVAC system by putting sponsors logos on our product, so they'll have. That's really smart, yeah, billiard Hall in Paducah, kentucky, I think, if I recall correctly, was by a number of sponsors. They basically sold the spaces on the duck socks and they paid for their whole equipment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 2:I've seen a lot of times where you could do where they had clouds on it, so that that's cool. You can have other things. I've seen universities where they'll have their logo on it.
Speaker 1:So that's cool. You can have other things I've seen universities where they'll have their logo on it.
Speaker 4:Their logo, yeah, yeah, no, it definitely is a fun part of our product.
Speaker 1:I'll look for that in the mail, Nick.
Speaker 4:Send a picture, we'll see what we can do All right, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, now that we've kind of understand what Duck Socks is and the kind of the history, the genesis of it, I guess the next part is is kind of are there any kind of exciting things in the future for Duck Socks?
Speaker 4:There are, and you know, I think we, as we look at our story and our company and where we're headed, I think we're really seeing a lot of better engagements with industry, with the business development managers like myself working with end users. We're identifying more use cases within as they explore deeper and I mean some of the interesting things that we get involved with. That I never would have thought is like we're cooling video walls.
Speaker 4:We actually have duck stocks behind video wall screens on time square wow we've been doing work in um gun ranges, so control the airflow for your moving down range, which, weirdly enough and I never would have guessed this in a million years but there's a gun range at the un and that has duck.
Speaker 1:You guys are famous.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and for us, I think the big step for us has been kind of really diving into that sound and looking at the acoustic benefit and getting more into studios.
Speaker 4:We are looking at recycled content to be much more of our product and working with our partners that we have Actually, many of our fabrics you may or may not know know this, but many of our fabrics come from the Carolinas, so, um, small it's a partner we found early and we favor, so it's something that we uh, regardless of where we sew the product, the fabrics coming out of the Carolinas for most of our fabrics, so it's kind of if you didn't know that, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 4:Everything great comes from Carolina I mean I did send my mom down there recently. So she lives, she lives down in Pick and South Carolina.
Speaker 2:So I like it. Yeah, so maybe for this last piece, nick, if uh kind of what I love to do is just kind of hear a story, uh from you of something maybe a memorable or challenging project that you've had to go through in your 30 years with Duck Socks.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that yeah there's been a number.
Speaker 4:The one that's probably more memorable than any as of late was I had a conversation with the architect for a stadium and basically the only question that he asked was can you do oval? Can you do vertical oval? And my quick response was if anybody can, we can. Because I do trust in the team of engineers that we have, both from the design front and the product development side, and we've never made anything like this before. And I reached out to our team internally and the immediate reaction was have you seen our oval? I said, well, let's sketch something out and see what we can be a little inventive and see if we can come up with something a little inventive and see if we can come up with something.
Speaker 4:And the story kind of went quickly to the contractor was awarded and they ended up basically saying we don't care what's specified. If you want to be involved in this, you need to have a sample here on site in three weeks and for something we've never built before. Our team was absolutely incredible in coming up with a mock-up in a very short amount of time of what was at the time the world's largest duck socks. It's 12 and a half foot tall vertical oval six foot diameter, and it happens to be for the Allegiant Stadium for the Raiders in Las Vegas, and the experience was different and very unique in that it's the first time I've ever seen where an engineering team or a project team has taken the salesmanship out of it, and it basically is if you want to be part of this project, have the product hanging here. We are going to evaluate it.
Speaker 4:Here's metal, here's you, here's all the other fabric players in the marketplace and all parties were invited to participate, and for me it was very rewarding to be able to see what our team did and how well they performed under that pressure and stress.
Speaker 4:And we we ended up doing the project, which was, which was very exciting, because I think we have I think in in total it's 700,000 CFM that we disperse in the facility. It's really big numbers. And there's the partnership throughout the project was pretty exciting, where the engineering firm themselves even wrote their own story that's still on their website that talks a little bit about the experience working with the world's largest fabric duct project or duct stock project. And then the the contractor even told us that they saved 5 000 hours of installation time compared to what they thought. So, um, wow, that relationship has gone further, where they ran into an opportunity or challenge at the sphere to bring all the airflow into the sphere in vegas as well. Same company, same or same contractor, and they, uh, they reached out to us to to do another herculean feat of something we've never done and that's come up with 13 foot diameter duck socks, which is, I mean, tunnel size right yeah, and, and there we uh can.
Speaker 4:The airflow that cools the high definition screen on the inside all comes through the duck socks, which is kind of an exciting project to be a part of. Did they make you?
Speaker 1:compete this time, or did they just give you the job?
Speaker 4:They. Well, it wasn't so much that we were given the job that we were. We were brought to the table and then we were heavily grilled by the engineering and acoustics consultants. Grilled by the engineering and acoustics consultants.
Speaker 4:And we had to prove ourselves. I mean it was a very lengthy process with one acoustic consultant that's also a professor at NYU. That was very scrutinized and I will say that was with the ME group out of Boulder and they were. They've become very good partners too in that they understand. So I mean it's we're definitely working with some of the engineering groups out there that test our will and that's so much. You know. They're not here just to listen to us, they're actually and we get involved and go do testing.
Speaker 4:And next week again I'm going out and doing some more acoustic testing with another customer. And it's something that we love, those opportunities to be challenged, because really it's not so much if we can, it's just what conditions do we need to design for to make it work appropriately? And the key thing in our product that's different, I think, than what most air distribution solutions are is we're really not geared to be a catalog solution. We are 100% custom made, tailored to the project, and it should be less cost. It should be much lower weight and last much longer.
Speaker 4:And that's really what our goal has been as a company.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's very good.
Speaker 2:You know, Nick, you don't get to talk to too many people that have been a part of a company that has created market disruption. And whenever you see market disruption it's something that kind of makes you pause because you've rethought something that everybody thought couldn't be redone, and I mean this with all sincerity. I mean this with all sincerity. Duck Sox is just very impressive that they took such a mundane product such as duct work and you rethought it. You made it into something that is disrupting the market and that people like. To Kelly's point earlier, you kind of get excited walking into a space and seeing that it's got clouds on it or some print. So kudos to you guys.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you for that. It's been, admittedly, a big part of our story. That is, the unsung, because we have become the Kleenex of the brand, but the bigger part of our story is our partners, like we have with Hoffman, hoffman and all of our distributors throughout the markets that not only carry the message with their customers but they bring their customers' interest back so we can identify solutions, or if we have the right or if we don't, and that partnership has really been the big part of the story. In my opinion. That helps us do the right things for customers.
Speaker 2:Very cool. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I know I'm better for it, Kelly.
Speaker 1:You know I say this all the time, but this was one of my favorites. I say it all the time. Well we certainly appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 4:Thank you for inviting us and we look forward to any information that we can help you with and any of that comes up, thank you.
Speaker 2:Very cool, Kelly. Did you learn something new today?
Speaker 1:but then it comes up. Thank you Very cool, kelly. Did you learn something new today? I did, but I can't remember what it was. It was the FTS. Wait, hold on, let's see if I can do it Flexible, something about a spine. There's a spine in there, but it's not the word.
Speaker 4:Full tension system Full tension system. It's like the bike that has the full tension system or the full suspension, but it's a full tension system.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I didn't learn it, but I'll never forget it again.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:I love it, kelly. What should folks do if they like our podcast, I'm sorry, our podcast that now has had thousands of listens, thousands of listens.
Speaker 1:We're practically viral. If they enjoy our podcast, they should subscribe or, like a podcast, follow us. There's so many things they could do.
Speaker 2:Very good. Well, this is the end of episode one of season two. Yeah, I had a great time. Thank you again, nick and duck socks, for being with us today, and that's all. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye anymore. Got lost inside a daydream, get sick of all schemes they play on their machines. Lost so many words as I got older. You would have thought I was a star. To mend my middle of order, accidentally wrote these words down, thought all the best of me Faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside? But you to bring back the words inside. But you always bring me back into blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me? I drove an hour to see you. Things just seemed to matter more to me anyway. Got lost in reality. No answers to cancer. We never got to talk. Lost so many friends as I got older. Wish I had the strength to hold you a little bit longer. Always meant to write these words down, thought all the best of you faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back into blue eyes.
Speaker 3:Twenty years of staring at that freckle on my left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you To bring back the words inside of me? But you always bring me back at your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you To bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back At your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that breath Along your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you To bring back the songs inside of me? You were always a part of me. You were always inside of me. You were always a part of me.
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