HVAC-ology
Welcome to "HVAC-ology," your podcast for all things related to commercial HVAC systems! Whether you're an experienced technician, an HVAC engineer, a curious business owner, or simply someone interested in understanding the parts and pieces of HVAC systems, this podcast is perfect for you.
In each episode, our expert hosts and enthusiasts delve into the complex world of commercial heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC). We cover everything from the latest equipment technology advancements to practical tips.
Music credits: "Bring Me Back" by Deleveled (instrumental for intro and with lyrics for outtro).
HVAC-ology
Destratifying Comfort: How Zoo Fans Revolutionizes Air Distribution
Cooper Bohn takes us inside the world of innovative air distribution with a fascinating look at how ZooFans is transforming comfort in commercial spaces. As Cooper explains, these small but powerful fans address a fundamental challenge in buildings with high ceilings: temperature stratification, where heat collects uselessly at the ceiling while occupants below remain uncomfortable.
What makes this conversation particularly engaging is discovering how ZooFans (cleverly named for Zone of Occupancy) delivers benefits far beyond the expected energy savings. Cooper shares compelling stories of real-world applications, including a Virginia distribution center that not only reduced heating costs by 25% but also measured a surprising 5% increase in worker productivity. The facility manager received hugs from grateful employees who could finally work comfortably without restrictive winter clothing – a truly unexpected metric of success in an industrial setting.
Perhaps most fascinating is how comfort translates directly to business outcomes. A national grocery chain installed ZooFans above refrigerated aisles not primarily for energy savings but because comfortable shoppers lingered longer and purchased more cheese! This insight led to a massive 500-store rollout. Meanwhile, Amazon has installed over 14,000 ZooFans in distribution centers worldwide, reducing production stoppages during hot weather and improving working conditions.
The technical details are equally compelling: with a 2.1-year ROI according to Department of Energy estimates, minimal maintenance requirements, and integration capabilities with building automation systems, these fans create more predictable environments while transforming concrete floors into heat sinks that maintain temperature stability even when doors open. Whether you're managing a warehouse, a retail space, or a manufacturing facility, this episode reveals how something as seemingly simple as air movement can dramatically improve both human comfort and operational efficiency.
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Welcome to the HVACology Experience where we talk about all things HVAC industry, topics that are so hot. They are.
Speaker 4:Welcome to HVACology. I am so grateful that I get to hang out with you, Ms Kelly Patterson.
Speaker 2:I am so grateful too, and also also I'm really enjoying your introductions. Lately I feel like you're getting more and more enthusiastic. The more listeners we, we, uh, we have, the more enthusiastic you are about that intro. So I appreciate that, thank you.
Speaker 4:Well, and like when people meet me and I'm so monotone and kind of like I, you know, kind of have the don't talk to me right now face, they get to hear this part of me, right. So they know that there's actually a couple of a couple of different angles to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's fun, Ryan too.
Speaker 4:There's fun, Ryan. Speaking of fun, can you believe it? We're both in sweaters today and we didn't even talk about it.
Speaker 2:We didn't.
Speaker 4:I really enjoy your your cozy sweater thank you, I like it. I like it. Oh man, uh. I know this will air really far after christmas, but I gotta confess something that really frustrated me, kelly oh, tell me so we, you know, I don't know how everybody does, I feel like probably it does.
Speaker 4:so you go through the main things, the presents, and then you get to the stocking. And the stocking can be glorious, or it can be okay, or it can be bad, even. Well, my wife is kind of in charge of all things stockings and I look and the kids are opening up theirs. They get all this candy, this great-looking chocolate with Italian names that I can't pronounce phonically and.
Speaker 4:I get to mine, and instead of chocolates I have a bunch of individual package dude wipes, and so I feel like my wife is saying something to me that obviously I am fat and two that I have obviously a hygiene issue.
Speaker 2:Wait, why fat?
Speaker 4:How does that play into it, because she didn't give me any sweeties, she didn't give me chocolate, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But, here.
Speaker 4:If I can come full circle with that, she might know the psychology that I'm going to go in the middle of the night and I'm going to go sneak out of the pantry some of their chocolates yeah, absolutely which which could give a little bit of the old ibs a little bit. You know, 20 of adults suffer from ibs 20 so when you're in an elevator and it's full, there's a good chance somebody's struggling with a little bit of IBS in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, what? I'm speechless. This is maybe the first time in my life, maybe the first.
Speaker 4:So the chocolates then require me to use the dude wipes. And so maybe she in her wisdom, knew how this was all going to go down.
Speaker 2:I think she knows you. I think that's it, but also let me circle back to the whole. You do the stockings after presents.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what do you do?
Speaker 2:First, always Right. You too, cooper.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Stockings are always first ways, right? You too, cooper? Yeah, stockings are always first, and and they're the favorite of everyone in my house because santa puts in some really fun thing, like this year, santa put in these headbands with this ball attached and you punch it yeah, we got that two years ago, yeah oh, well, well I mean my house isn't as cool as yours, humble but, anyway, but first we do stockings first.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm just surprised to hear the tradition of doing it last yeah, and I feel like you and cooper just ganged up on me.
Speaker 4:And cooper, you haven't even been introduced yet. I don't know that you can get into this conversation cooper's not allowed to talk yet I've never, I've never missed a christmas before.
Speaker 1:So I mean the other thing I wanted to tell you that I was actually very impressed with. So I mean, I don't know if that qualifies me.
Speaker 4:The other thing I wanted to tell you that I was actually very impressed with so I've been. You try to meet your kids where they're at right, so like, if they're into music, you go with them, and to get into music with them. If they're into video games, you meet them there. If they're in the anime, whatever, and so my son is really into video games and you know, elon musk is like the number one player in uh diablo right now. You know, by the time this airs it might not be the case. So I'm like, if elon musk is a gamer, why not let my son why not ryan hudson?
Speaker 4:uh well, this would be ross, hudson, not right? Not ryan oh, I thought you were just like you know, gonna be like elon, but you're gonna let Roth be like him no, I get in the video games and then, like I get all wacky, I gotta walk away for a little bit whenever I get into them. I've been playing this game called Elden Ring and it is eating my lunch whenever I play it but, anyway, my son builds.
Speaker 4:Uh, I get it, he's like dad, I want to build a computer and so we order all of these parts that he goes and looks up about and he puts the thing together and guess what, kelly, it works. The dang thing works. He's magic.
Speaker 2:I was very impressed, 16 years old, building the computer don't you feel proud when that thing, when that kind of thing happens like I I do. You're freaking genius, yeah, you should you should.
Speaker 4:The key was meeting him where he was at. He was super interested, interested in gaming. And here we are.
Speaker 2:He's building his own computer. I love it Way to invest in your kids' interests, Ryan. I appreciate that about you.
Speaker 4:Oh, thanks, I really appreciate that. Kelly, kelly, mm-hmm, I think you said you had something interesting to put out there on the floor.
Speaker 2:So well, mine is more about. I was a little bit curious about. You know, our industry has been exploding a little bit, the whole HVAC industry and I was wondering, before we broadcast, how many technicians and installers are out there in the world in the HVAC industry. Do you want to give it a shot? I mean, you're in the business so you have a pretty good idea. I think In the US.
Speaker 4:I don't know, I don't even want to guess Kelly. I'll be so far off.
Speaker 2:Cooper, do you want to try? Yeah, Cooper, do you know? How many technicians in the HVAC industry. This is from 2022, the Department of Labor Statistics from 2022. 800,000. See, you're twice as many. I'm going to go with 400. Did I get it right? You got it. Oh my gosh, You're such a genius. Oh my gosh, You're such a genius. 415,000. And it is expected but listen, this is the cool part of the statistics the growth rate until 2032 is expected to be 6%, which is double the average for all occupations.
Speaker 4:You know why, Kelly.
Speaker 2:Tell me why.
Speaker 4:I just read an article about this as well, and we're sinking here.
Speaker 2:I like this I like it, I like it.
Speaker 4:So this next generation that's coming through is like dude, I don't want debt, I want income, and so they don't bother with going to a four-year institution, because four-year institutions. So one I have a son right now that, guess what, at 18 years old, is in HVAC. He's going into tech school, oh okay. And then I have a daughter who is going into college right now. And so you know he's making his. I can see their bank accounts, his bank accounts, going up.
Speaker 2:Hers is kind of low Hers is going down.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, and mine's going down too lovingly, and so, yeah, I totally get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. My son went into the Air Force and his bank account is many, many times over what my recent college graduate son has.
Speaker 4:Proof is in the proverbial pudding.
Speaker 2:It is indeed, but Ryan. I'm looking at Cooper right now. I think he's growing weary of our conversation. I really feel like maybe we should pull him in.
Speaker 4:So Cooper Vaughn is our guest today. Not to be confused with the 1996 soul coffin song super bond bond, uh, cooper is with the company zoo fans, which is under the umbrella of duct socks, who we talked to a couple days ago.
Speaker 1:Cooper, hello hello hi ryan ke.
Speaker 4:Man, I am so excited to talk with you today about a product called Zoo Fans. But before we get into that, cooper, could you please tell myself and Kelly and this blossoming audience how in the world did you go from that beautiful May day of graduating high school to where you're at today with the Zoo Fans?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had to really figure out what not to say here. I took a lot of different paths, but I definitely grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. I went to an all boys high school with 1200 guys running around and wow highly competitive and just about everything. Uh, the school was competitive. Um, so it was. Sports were. Sports are a big deal in Kentucky in general, especially in Louisville. Um, and just fun, our high school rivalry football game had my senior year, had thirty eight thousand attendees, wow yeah.
Speaker 1:What that's insane, it's fun. So. So a lot of sports focus, academic focus, all of that was, you know, just, high level of achievement. I think one of our we have a, you know, our one of our slogan words is is achievement? Um, so it's, it's a part of the culture and what, what my parents really wanted from us?
Speaker 1:um, really started to grow in my my love of math because it had answers and I knew when I and I knew when I was done. So so really stuck to math, started working at Jimmy John's, which is kind of my first job experience, so slinging up sandwiches, which I ended up doing for seven years into college and helping. You mentioned the college debt. That was one of my ways to try to cut back on that a little bit.
Speaker 4:So, cooper, to interrupt you whenever you're at home with your wife and kids? How much quicker can you put a sandwich together than your wife With seven years of Jimmy John's?
Speaker 1:She kind of butters me up and she's like you're really good at this, can you?
Speaker 4:please make the sandwiches, smart woman. She is very smart yeah.
Speaker 1:So and they've liked them so far. So the key is an obscene amount of mayonnaise. That's what Jimmyimmy johns does. That's what I stick to. Yeah, yeah, yes, unacquired taste, not miracle whip, though. No, no, yeah, so that's it. Yeah, I started working doing that. Then, uh, ended up at the university of dayton in ohio, which is where I met my lovely wife, got in. I started in undecided engineering and was kind of between looking a little bit at electrical, mostly between mechanical and chemical engineering. I got a D in chem two which decided my path that I did not like that class. I didn't didn't care how quickly radioactive isotopes decay and I cared a lot more about bikes and cars and things that moved. So I ended up kind of running full steam into mechanical engineering trying to figure out what I want to do there.
Speaker 1:Really like the hands on building part of it. I didn't have much skill there really liked the hands-on building part of it. I didn't have much skill there. But you know I joke that I as a kid I took things apart a lot and I had to get a degree to figure out how to put them back together because I broke so many things just trying to explore how they worked. And the University of Dayton has a really strong co-op program. So I ended up getting a co-op for a company that makes vibrating conveyors a fascinating business. Instead of conveyor belts where the surface moves, they vibrate at an angle and the things move down, or they make these giant spirals that look like a big metal slide and it shakes like this and the items actually move upward without any moving parts. So there's a lot of processing in that, so very technical field and I got to rotate around different parts of that company. Very cool and kind of.
Speaker 1:In between the co-op I was going to school, some semesters, working other semesters and in between all that I ended up doing a study abroad trip to Italy, primarily in Florence, doing a engineering and the arts combination trip, and I think that that had a pretty big impact on on me. I mostly went to have fun, because Italy with a bunch of colleges is a blast, uh. But it opened me up to the kind of non-technical side of engineering, um, because I really want to do the engineering thing. But being able to connect, um, you know, da vinci, for instance, was an engineer, an artist, poet, a writer. We didn't box it in as much as, um, my, my schooling really isolated, you know, because I was good at math and I hated reading. I tried to read as little as possible and I think that probably guided my class selection, because I wanted to do what I was good at, not what was necessarily as hard. But I started to see the value in combining some of those different aspects, the softer skills and the harder skills, and wanting to combine those. Didn't know what that was going to look like. Mostly it was a super fun trip and had a lot of awesome memories there. I saw Bruce Springsteen play in Rome and I knew none of the words and all the Italians knew the words, wow. But one of my friends is a big fan, it was his birthday so we wanted to take him. Um, that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I got back from that, went back to co-op, ended up graduating uh, followed my wife to illinois uh, where I got, I had an interview, went through the interview process and ended up getting a design engineering job for a food warming equipment manufacturer. Um, and got to. We were working with customers like taco bell, kfc and then a bunch of catering uh restaurants and things like that. So we were designing sheet metal uh catering carts and I was like at the computer all day doing sheet metal CAD. And then they let me out of my cube and I went to a trade show and I was like I like talking about engineering way more than actually doing it and I got I we were showing one of my new products. I got there was like a couple of design patents that on it. That didn't mean much. We were trying to keep the competitors away, but being able to talk to the end user and figure out like, is this useful to you, is this a product that would help? Like that was way.
Speaker 1:Either move to Colorado right then, or we could wait till we retired, because we saw in our parents those were kind of the two options is either go right away and maybe move back home later, or you got to wait a while. So we dropped everything, packed everything in a trailer, moved to Colorado with no place to live and no jobs, and as I'm prepping for that trip, I'm looking, looking for a job. We're going to the library like every night because, also, we were in a ton of debt and super broke so we didn't have internet, um, and so we're going to the library to use their internet so we could. So I can find a job, and um, and we wanted to move to Boulder, colorado, or one of those Colorado cities close to the mountains. And so I I just typed in manufacturer in Boulder and they're, they're lit there. They're actually none, but zoo fans had an office there, cause that's where the owner lived and it was listed as a manufacturer, even though it was had an office there because that's where the owner lived and it was listed as a manufacturer, even though it was just an office with a couple of spots. So I sent them an email.
Speaker 1:Their website was very outdated at the time and they were just about to launch a new one. So he got back to me. It's like, actually, you know, we we were gonna hire a sales engineer, but you're about six months early, um, but this timing is pretty good, so let me, um, we'll have a couple calls with you and um, and then you know, once you move here, come, you'll come meet me in person. And so I did that and they said, you know, still a little early, let me launch the website, start work in two weeks. So you know, within a few days of driving out to Colorado, I secured the job at Zoo Fans and that really was my main sales training. Was just sitting next to the owner, who had spent his life running sales organizations, primarily in the financial retail market, and retired early from that and then started a fan company. So so, zoo Fans. He selected the name. So Zoo is an acronym, and do you have any guesses what it is an acronym for?
Speaker 4:Yeah, dude, you really put me on the spot here, right? Because?
Speaker 2:there's only so many words. What could the z be?
Speaker 1:hold on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we started out with the energy no kelly he's like no, brian's like no, it's not z energy, see all right, I give up what is it zone of occupancy?
Speaker 1:oh my gosh, that's perfect yeah, so we are primarily concerned with keeping it comfortable in the zone of occupancy. Yep, um, and we didn't. You know the. The founders did not want it to begin with. Air had any any a in the name? No air in the name, because he was looking at the list of companies that go to ashray every year and everybody has air. Yeah, all the or air somewhere in the name or air something air.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as an acronym also, it doesn't have to be uh translated into other languages, it can just be z-o-o but you're last in the in the list, right, like I mean I guess it's if you're not first, you're last right that's it. That's ricky bobby I mean that's okay, right yeah yeah, huh yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 4:So that is cool. That is really cool. So, zoo fans, what? What? So ZooFans, what is exactly? What is your niche?
Speaker 1:Yep. So we and we were talking about this a little before air distribution. So that's also the reason why Duck Socks acquired us is they are air distribution experts. So whether you're using ductwork, fabric dispersion systems, small destratification fans like zoo fans, or larger ceiling, larger diameter ceiling fans I think you had big ass fans on here on another episode so those are all good solutions for dispersing air within a space and if, if you can, if there are issues in the zone of occupancy with comfort.
Speaker 1:So some people are hot, some people are cold, because the air temperatures or there's differences in humidity, there's different heat sources in different locations, there's windows on one side but not the other side.
Speaker 1:So you see this a lot in car dealerships, where they have offices around the perimeter and there's windows, and so they're too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer.
Speaker 1:So making sure that each of those offices is getting adequate airflow if you move air in all, all parts of the space, then you get, then you have even temperatures and even humidity, and so you have more predictable environments and so that temperature evenness causes more comfort. And typically, you know, the most fun part about talking with people is the same thing that I discovered on accident at that trade show is that finding out why people really are, why people want a technical solution, is more fun than I think, than the technical part of it. That part's cool, you know, we need it, we need to understand it. But if you can, as you're talking to a potential customer or existing customer, finding out the real reason is the most exciting part for me and also the most useful from a sales perspective, because then you start to get to know what does the customer actually care about? As an engineer, I care about things that no one cares about and my wife reminds me of this all the time but the customers have a specific thing they're trying to target.
Speaker 4:So when I was looking at the website it looks like really you're dealing with more high ceiling situations, so that try to overcome stratification inside of a space. Is that kind of what the initial look was for the ZooFan?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think our initial tagline was lowering the cost of high ceilings, something like that. So the higher the ceilings, the more potential you have for stratification. The ceilings the more potential you have for stratification. So that's the easiest sell is a cold weather location, because people know that the hot air rises and you have a ceiling that's really high and all your people are down low. That's the most obvious situation where you say I want to get the heat down from the ceiling, but maybe it's too high for an HVLS fan, or I want very low air velocities for one reason or another usually comfort, but sometimes it's process related and and stratification actually can be a very big deal, depending, uh to your point, on you know what the space is doing and to try to get it to where the air moves a little bit more appropriately.
Speaker 4:doing and to try to get it to where the air moves a little bit more appropriately, and, just as you said earlier, what is stratification? Well, should everybody know that hot air rises and what you're trying to do is make sure that that air moves to where you don't have that blanket, if you will, inside of a space that's got a high ceiling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those high ceilings, those are the most obvious inside of a space that's got a high ceiling. Yeah, and those high ceilings, those are the most obvious. I think their tallest one's like 108 foot tall pharmaceutical storage facility.
Speaker 1:And getting down to the real reason they put them in was not necessarily the temperature evenness for the product, but because it was that tall. They had robotic picking units that were temperature sensitive. So to keep the robots from quitting on them, they had to keep the temperatures down because they're calibrated. Their sensors are all calibrated for a specific temperature range and they had to keep it.
Speaker 4:So your focus is more so on throw being able to throw the air as far as possible.
Speaker 1:Yep, throw the air, and the main design criteria is air rotations per hour, so air turns per hour. So we want to make sure all of the air in the space is moving through the fans at a fast enough rate that the temperatures even out, because you're always, if you're introducing heat or cool, you're always introducing the potential for stratification. Also, the sun shining through a window or on the roof, then that surface can get hot, depending on how much insulation you have.
Speaker 2:There's always a, so you have to mix fast enough to overcome that introduction of temperature differences. So I have a quick question about that. So, and forgive me for not knowing the answer to this, but are are they all custom designed for each application then? Or do you have certain fans that turn at a certain rate and then that's good for this application and this fan might be good for this application?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for for open ceilings, which is your typical open ceiling structure with no drop ceiling, anything like that we have three different body sizes and then a couple of different motors, roughly for each body size, and then different voltages. Okay, relatively the same. We size our fans based on the highest height where they can still hit the floor. So our H30 hits the ground from 30 feet, 60 from 60 feet. That's how we'll size it initially. And then the custom part is really where do you put the fans to get the best to make sure you're getting adequate air rotation and you don't have too much space in between the fans? So they have isolated columns of air mixing. You want those to mix in the middle. So it's kind of a balance between how much throw you have, and then you have other considerations like sound levels and the throw velocity at the floor. At the occupant level. How much airspeed can you tolerate for the application?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:So where do the cost savings really come in? Like, how are you calculating that? I guess showing, proving that to the customer.
Speaker 1:And this we especially when we first started the company, we thought that this was going to be the main question. And it's a good question and it's still something we talk about, you know, weekly with different customers. It's a calculation is somewhat difficult Air is squishy, I think, if we're going to use a better term but we have some estimating tools. The Department of Energy put together a study with the Industrial Assessment Center. So if you go to the IAC website for the DOE, they estimate a 2.1-year ROI for a destratification solution, stratification solution. So if you mix the air using different kinds of fans and distribution devices, they estimate about a 2.1 year, which is approximately what we've seen in the field.
Speaker 1:There's some other estimates, but the main way that it saves energy and it's again most obvious in a tall ceiling when you're heating is that that heat's going to rise to the ceiling. You bring the heat down and you satisfy your temperature set point more often, more frequently and for longer periods of time. So that's the first way is that your temperatures, so then your heating system is cycled off a higher percentage of the day.
Speaker 4:So can I say say an example maybe and you correct me if I'm wrong. The example so I've got building x and building x has 30 foot high ceilings and my thermostat is sitting at you know, five foot or whatever it is that you code calls it to be, and then I have that set because I'm in the dead of winter in south dakota and I have it set to 72 in there and what's happening is is that that unit is running and it is providing heat, but all that heat is stacking up in that 30 feet and what you're saying is is that using your device has kind of got a low entry point as far as energy consumption to have it push that air down, so that thermostat says, ah, I'm satisfied now. And so you don't just have the thermostat satisfied, but you also have a creature comfort in the people that are down at that height of you know, up to six, seven feet high.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. The example that I use for this is a distribution center in Virginia that it was tracking. They had a lot of data on, like the output of the, the employees, the comfort level, the energy. Um, they were already leads gold rated before they put our fans in and they saved an additional 25 on their heating costs, golly, and they didn't care that much. Um, and they were like, yeah, it's virginia, gas is cheap. And um then, yeah, that was it was a while ago.
Speaker 1:Um, and what they? What they said is they also measured a 5% increase in productivity over the previous year at similar temperatures. And that 5% increase in productivity because it was a big facility that was a higher worth, a higher dollar amount, than 25% energy savings. So they stack again, you stack them on top of each other. But that 5% increase in productivity plus the facilities manager that put it in was this big, like six foot five, burly Virginian, and he was like I put these in and people are giving me hugs.
Speaker 1:And he was like I only get hugs on my birthday and now they're hugging me because I put these fans in and which is fascinating to us because, again, this was a learning process that the kind of early on in our company is that we thought it was going to be energy savings because we wanted to put that number on our next presentation and the energy savings came. And it's fairly easy to explain why those happens because they had heated ceiling and what we just talked about, but because they were able to push the heat down to the floor. Then you turn especially a hard concrete floor, you turn your floor into a heat sink that holds that heat. When the doors open and close and the cold air rushes in, it comes back to temperature much faster.
Speaker 1:And what they found is, instead of wearing their heaviest winter coat and heavier gloves, they were able to wear lighter clothing and their joints, you know, spend any time walking around a cold concrete floor. You start to feel it in your ankles and knees. So the employees were more comfortable. Their bodies felt better, so, you know, very subjectively and they were able to wear clothing that was less restrictive. You know, wearing a light sweater like you guys, as opposed to a big, you know, a big bulky coat. All those things added up gave them a measurable increase in production.
Speaker 4:Cooper dude, you went deep into that man. You got the heat sink for the floor. You got the joints feeling good from lighter jackets. It's like you were born to do this.
Speaker 2:You were born to do this, Cooper.
Speaker 4:You know what? In the world was I going to say? I just went completely blank.
Speaker 2:You were so enthounded by Cooper's just amazing storytelling skills, oh I know what I was going to say Procurement.
Speaker 4:So anytime you can show procurement like a two-ish year payback, they're all in. And that was something that struck me at the very beginning of what you said that you know, payback on what your product is is, you know, around that two-year window, which is fantastic as far as you know if you're an end user trying to get something, that's a no brainer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's, getting over that hump can be challenging because it also being a relatively small company and a newer product, you really need that engineering team behind you to work. But it was a grocery chain and they wanted to prove it out, so they did a one store pilot and a three store pilot and again early in our company we were like what's the energy savings? You're a big corporation, of course you got to be measuring this right. And the engineer was like, yeah, they don't. The engineer the engineer was already already knew this about this customer. And they finally were like, yeah, what they care about is using these in the refrigerated aisles and freezer aisles so that people are more comfortable, so that they subconsciously spend more time browsing. So they did this to sell more cheese. So they they did the three-store pilot and then did a 500-store rollout because they sold enough cheese to pay for the fans.
Speaker 4:It's all about the cheese.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all about the cheddar so if you find yourself eating more cheese. I'll let you know what chains it is so you may want to steer clear.
Speaker 2:We'll contact Cooper. Hey, Cooper, I was in this grocery store and I bought two gallons of ice cream because I was so happy to be there.
Speaker 1:Well, that's you probably, and so are. What our fans do also is they defog. They help defog the door so that you can see the product which is important. Yeah, you can't see it, you can't get hungry and you won't buy it. Yeah, those, those are the kind of stories we're getting. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:The marketing brain in me wants to talk about like once wants you to use that. Get more hugs like the zoo fans. You get more hugs like the. It's just going over and over in my mind right.
Speaker 4:So recently I read an article that you need about seven hugs a day to stay in a happy frame of mind. Yeah, so that six foot five burly guy is a happier man because of you, Cooper.
Speaker 2:Exactly you can bring in love man, I love it.
Speaker 4:So, Cooper, you got these fans that are potentially hanging 30, 60 feet high. I got two questions for you. Question number one how in the world do you control that fan, Like, what technologies do you have for it to say, hey, I need to be on now or I need to be off? Is there a manual? Is there actually something that you can actually pull into their controls they have for their building management system? What do y'all have for options?
Speaker 1:Yep, all the above. So manual controls, simplest way to do it. Typically you're finding a speed that's comfortable for you and maybe changing it twice a year would be best. But you can set the speed, let it run 24, 7, and that as long as you're actively heating and cooling a space, that that's a great way to do it and pretty energy efficient. We can tighten to the building automation system using a bunch of different electrical signals digital, analog.
Speaker 1:But the, you know, our biggest customers, and the one I'll highlight at the end, uses a BACnet system exclusively because they want to see the RPM value of every fan in the facility and know that they're running at the speed it's supposed to and track that over the long term along with, you know, employee complaints and discomfort. Or if someone you know the biggest risk to a job not working well is, uh, unneeded human intervention on the controls. So if they go in and someone's like I'm tired of this fan running and they pull the plug out or or try to block it or something, um, then that's gonna it, the fan's going to be able to do its job. So this this company wanted to track all of that.
Speaker 4:Also, looking at it, it looks like these guys can fit into a pretty small footprint if they need to as well.
Speaker 1:Yep, and those are the controls strategies, or that's the control technology. Um, the strategy the one that works works best if you're going for temperature evenness or humidity evenness is to operate it based on a high and low sensor and measuring the difference between those. So we don't necessarily care what the absolute temperature is, we want to know what the difference is and we're going to ramp the fans up and down to eliminate that difference. Once the space is very even, the fans can really back down to a very low, energy efficient and quiet speed so that they're not noticed. They just keep the air mixing in the background without anyone noticing.
Speaker 4:So I'll come back to that. So again, fan 30, 60 feet in the air. Tell me about the maintenance that's needed for these guys.
Speaker 1:The main one that we recommend. That hardly gets done is just blowing off or wiping down the intake. A clean intake will let these fans run a long, long time. We've got fans that have been running since the company started in 2010 and 2011,. Around that time frame. They're still going just fine, running 24-7. They have very little back pressure in the housing so we're not overworking the motor at all and so it's spinning freely. The bearings are enclosed so there's no lubrication maintenance needed for these. They're, all you know, 1.6 to 1.12 horsepower, so again, really really low demand, not much force that's happening to cause any failures, but a clogged intake. Really dusty, greasy environments definitely pay attention to the intake so you don't choke the motor.
Speaker 4:Gotcha. And then you had mentioned the NC level, or noise criteria level for these. I'm guessing you guys are really conscious of that, to make sure that stays low.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, and it can be. When you're on the website, the numbers that you see on our data sheets will be at high speed. That's not the speed we're gonna run in a classroom or a church or a library. If we run it at half speed or less, they're gonna be quiet enough for most of those applications. But we can get really detailed in our engineering, but that detailed sound data isn't readily available on the website. So caution to engineers and end users that might be looking at that. If you have questions on sound, we can get these as quiet as you need to. It's just a matter of selecting the right size.
Speaker 4:And if it was the 1980s and I was in the band Twisted Sister and I wanted my hair to be constantly blowing while I was playing on stage for a two-hour set, do you think this fan could do that?
Speaker 1:If you want that, I may recommend a change to our parking garage fans, which are a high-thrust, high-volume fan.
Speaker 4:You know, I was hoping you were going to buy that transition and he did. Man, we need to start selling together. Cooper, let's go. I mean yeah, so tell me more about this JetVent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so JetVent is a thing that came out of a lot of requests from us, or that we were getting from engineers when they would say you know, zoofan's great, you know, in a warehouse, can I use it in a parking garage pointed sideways? And our answer was yes, but we've seen it would work for airflow, but it's a plastic fan with a plastic housing and I don't and it's not low profile. So, and then we've seen we've all seen scrape marks on the ceiling of a parking garage. It's that's not a good idea. So we went looking for a solution and this was right before I started with Zoo Fans, as they found this and I was part of launching that product at ASHRAE in January of 2018, january February 2018.
Speaker 1:And so we brought this product that had no distribution in North America but had been used in Europe and Australasia for 10, 12 years before that with a lot of success. And so the manufacturer that was looking for distribution in North America, where there are a lot of cars and a lot of people, and it was a good fit so basically got a, a product line that was set to go and ready with controls and pre-programmed for carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide sensors, and so it was a night. It was a good fit for us because we were into air distribution, you know, using an array of small fans to to create a good environment in a space. So it fit with our mentality really well and so we were able to add that to our product line and have a product that that we could use in those applications. So really, the zoo fans we use now for more vertical applications, uh, the jet bin fans, if you need a long throw and horizontal application like a parking garage or similar, we can use that model too.
Speaker 4:Can you the jet vents? Can you run those in series so that if you're trying you have a long distance you're trying to push, that they can kind of help each other out, if you will?
Speaker 1:Yep. So our standard profile for that one has a 200 foot throw and the fans, uh, less than 15 inches tall, just to give you an idea of size, um, and I think it weighs about 200 pounds as well. So it's a big, big metal housing, um, you know, big, big, relatively big motor, compared to our zoo fans especially, but generates a high thrust. That is, you know, perfect for concerts and parking garages.
Speaker 4:Gotcha. So whenever I'm driving, I see these fans that are in series. Whenever I'm going through these long tunnels, like through the mountains, is that kind of what you could use that product for as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is also a high thrust fan fan. The difference in my a little bit redneck explanation for the differences there is that when you're driving through a tunnel you see it's a circular housing, it's a tubular housing, so it's a tunnel shaped fan used in a tunnel. So for a parking garage you want a parking garage shaped fan that fits the space a lot better.
Speaker 1:So we have a very short wide nozzle, so the air spreads out in a short, wide pattern, fills the space appropriately better. So we have a very short, wide nozzle, so the air spreads out in a short, wide pattern, fills the space appropriately but also stays up out of the way. Tunnels in the middle of the tunnel you have a lot of clearance and also the big difference there is that tunnels require smoke ventilation during the fire so those fans have to be fire rated up to crazy temperatures for a couple hours sometimes. I don't know the exact code for that, but in parking garages because they have sprinklers. You never want to run circulation fans in a parking garage in the United States where they always require sprinklers, and because you have a lot of water blowing sideways and you can have dry spots on the ground. So we always shut our fans off if the fire alarm goes off.
Speaker 4:Very good. So, to transition, one of the things that we like to ask folks when they're on the show is you know, tell us about an interesting situation with a customer or a big problem that someone had that you had to provide a unique solution to.
Speaker 1:Yep, I wanted to highlight a customer that has both a parking garage and a manufacturing space for destratification but maybe not your typical one and also happens to be our largest single customer with Amazon and their distribution centers. They typically have nine to 13, 14 foot ceilings and they're using 200 to 300 zoo fans in each of their facilities. All and it's all of their, their largest, like four or five style of distribution centers, five um style of distribution centers. So it's all their, all their biggest ones, um, where they're using 100 of those built after april 2020 have zoo fans in them, the ones before that, some of them don't have them.
Speaker 1:So we had a customer or one of the safety specialists at a uh, at an Amazon, in a very hot location on a hot day. You know they have to stop production If it gets hot enough in the facility. Stop production, give people popsicles and water and all that. So they're disrupting their productive time and they're also spending to keep people comfortable and that's required by OSHA to do some of those heat mitigating practices. That safety specialist visited a sister facility exact same layout, all the same equipment, except it had zoo fans and she came back and said hey, I was in this other facility in this different state on a hotter day. And it, hey, I was in this facility, this other facility, in this different state, on a hotter day, and it was more comfortable in that facility than my facility is. And the only difference that I can see is that one had zoo fans and one didn't. Um, so making sure that you're getting the cold air to the people where it mattered, um, in that zone of occupancy, even at a short ceiling. Um, so that, and and they have, I think, over 14,000 vans installed in their distribution centers. So again big made a big difference for us as a company and is still a business that you know. That was just earlier in 2024 that they were coming and looking for that solution in the facility that was built before we started working with them.
Speaker 1:Amazon also built their headquarters building in Washington DC and we have, I think, almost 70 Jetman fans in that facility. They put those fans in because of sound, which is a little bit unique, but because they have security guards on staff, they did not. The engineer was very careful that if somebody was, if there was a crime happening or somebody need medical attention and the security guard couldn't hear them because of the ventilation system like that, that was unacceptable. Them because of the ventilation system like that was, that was unacceptable. So we got we got that job specifically because we were one of the quietest, we were the quietest option for that type of fan and we could we could ensure with our advanced control system that the fans stayed running as quiet as possible so that we didn't get in the way of safety.
Speaker 4:So, again, really surprised that an engineer had that kind of forethought to you know what. Let's make sure that this NC level is here so that whenever there's a screaming person, the security guard can hear them. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:It is impressive, and that was coming from Amazon specifically. They had built other office buildings where safety was a concern. Maybe it's not in the best neighborhood, but that was a major concern for their customer and they listened. We're glad they did.
Speaker 4:That is cool.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 4:So, cooper, we started this episode off with talking about things we got for Christmas. I believe before we started, you mentioned that you got something special for Christmas.
Speaker 1:Tell everybody what you got yes. Yes, yes, last year we got a baby girl for Christmas. Um, yes, so she, uh, we now get to have birthday cake every Christmas for the rest of her life, and, um and it, it. We're very excited about it.
Speaker 2:So so for her year old birthday, did you wrap her presents in birthday paper or Christmas paper?
Speaker 1:She got a little bit of both. She got a little bit of both. There's our.
Speaker 4:Gotta be, careful.
Speaker 1:We're really tired. We have a five year old, a three year old and a one year old, so the wrapping paper consistency hasn't really You're not there yet.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I am going to feel her pain. I I know her pain because I'm a very close uh birthday near christmas and I can't tell you how many years somebody's like, hey, I got this for you for christmas and your birthday.
Speaker 1:That's the worst, yeah, our good friends in colorado sent us a meme of the wise men and it said that it was like hey, just so you know, this is for christmas and your birthday and your birthday, yeah, so we're gonna.
Speaker 2:I think we're gonna hang that.
Speaker 1:We're gonna frame it hanging up every christmas that's fantastic a poor girl man.
Speaker 4:I am better for this conversation. You tell us a lot about zoo fans and uh jet vent fans. Uh kelly, what did you take away from this conversation?
Speaker 2:other than that. Zoo fans is all about love.
Speaker 4:Like other than that part yeah, you get more hugs with zoo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like zoo. I feel so much closer to zoo fans now after this conversation, like I'm just gonna tell everyone about zoo fans. But the big thing thing that I learned that it has been a curiosity for me for some time about the origin of the Zoo Fans name. Every time I've seen it I'm like why on earth do they call it Zoo Fans? And so now I know it's Zone of Occupancy, which makes me a smarter person. I appreciate it, cooper.
Speaker 4:Kelly, you can appreciate from a marketing standpoint that, hey, they got you talking about the name, right?
Speaker 2:I know I've asked seriously. I have asked multiple people. Tim Buford and I had a long conversation one time about why is it called Zoo Fans.
Speaker 4:And now you can be the solution provider.
Speaker 2:Now I'm going to tell everybody.
Speaker 1:I'm on a personal mission and all of our reps can answer that question.
Speaker 2:Everyone here will be able to answer it now, cooper, excellent.
Speaker 4:Cooper, thank you so much for your time today. We are better for it, as I said already. And Kelly, if folks like this show, what in the world should they do?
Speaker 2:Well, first they should listen to it every episode right Wisdom wisdom. Wisdom, and then they should like follow, subscribe and just find us wherever you find any of your favorite podcasts.
Speaker 4:Well, I believe that puts another one in the old can, as they say.
Speaker 2:It is Yep. We're done All right, thanks Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye, as they say it is.
Speaker 3:Yep, we're done. All right, all right, thanks bye. Things don't seem to matter much to me anymore, got lost inside a daydream, get sick of all schemes they play on their machines. Lost so many words as I got older. You would have thought I was a star from an amine miller folder Accidentally wrote these words. You would have thought I was a star. To make my middle of order.
Speaker 3:I accidentally wrote these words down, thought all the best of me, faded in an embassy. But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle On your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. 20 years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you To bring back the words inside of me? I drove an hour to see you.
Speaker 3:Things just seemed to matter More to me anyway. Got lost in reality. No answers to cancer. We never got to talk. Lost so many friends as I got older. Wish I had the strength to hold you a little bit longer. I always meant to write these words down. Thought all the best of you faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back into blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on my left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me? But you always bring me back At your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring At that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought All I needed Was to think of you To bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. 20 years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the songs inside of me? You were always inside of me. You were always a part of me.
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