HVAC-ology
Welcome to "HVAC-ology," your podcast for all things related to commercial HVAC systems! Whether you're an experienced technician, an HVAC engineer, a curious business owner, or simply someone interested in understanding the parts and pieces of HVAC systems, this podcast is perfect for you.
In each episode, our expert hosts and enthusiasts delve into the complex world of commercial heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC). We cover everything from the latest equipment technology advancements to practical tips.
Music credits: "Bring Me Back" by Deleveled (instrumental for intro and with lyrics for outtro).
HVAC-ology
Re-Release: Chillers, Cooling Towers, and Energy Magic: The HVAC Insider's Guide
Heat recovery systems and series counterflow applications represent groundbreaking approaches to dramatically improve HVAC efficiency and reduce energy costs across commercial and industrial buildings.
• Heat recovery captures wasted energy and repurposes it where needed in a building system
• The coefficient of performance (COP) measures efficiency - heat recovery systems can achieve COPs of 3.5 to 8.0
• Modern heat recovery systems can be eight times more efficient than conventional fossil fuel heating
• Series counterflow arrangements reduce chiller "lift" requirements, improving efficiency by about 25%
• Even small commercial buildings can benefit from energy recovery ventilation (ERV) systems
• Water-to-water heat pump systems can simultaneously provide heating and cooling
• Air-cooled chillers run in series can significantly improve efficiency and help achieve LEED certification
• Heat recovery is becoming increasingly important as energy costs rise, even in regions with historically low rates
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Welcome to the HVACology experience, where we talk about all things HVAC industry topics that are so hot, they are cool.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to HVACology, episode number four. I am with my very lovely host, kelly Patterson, today. Hello Kelly.
Speaker 3:Hello Ryan Hudson, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing excelente. That's actually Spanish for excellent. I hope you're doing well.
Speaker 3:I am doing quite well. I am very super glad it's Friday.
Speaker 1:Super glad that it's Friday. Yes.
Speaker 3:Super glad that it's Friday.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And you know our office has gotten a little hot lately, right Because the weather's starting to heat up. We have just switched over to HVAC and I was curious about the number of people in the United States who don't have air conditioning in your homes. Do you know what that percentage is?
Speaker 2:No. Is this your fun fact for the day? What Is this your fun fact for the day? What Is this your fun fact for the day?
Speaker 3:This is my fun fact.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right. How many people in the United States as a percentage?
Speaker 3:As a percentage.
Speaker 2:As a percentage I'm going to go with. We haven't introduced you, rick, yet, but you can also chime in on this one Sure. So I'm going to say 32%, that don't have it, that don't have HVAC. What do you think, rick, before?
Speaker 3:I was going to say 30%.
Speaker 4:I was going to say 30%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what? It is only 12% now. Wow, now, that does include window units and central air, right? So there is a lower percentage of people who have central air, but now only 12% of the country doesn't have actual air conditioning in their homes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 3:Wow. It's great I know Right, and in 2010, I think, or 2001,. Many years ago, it was less than 70 percent had anything at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I believe that. Well, there's some places you just visit in the country.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter what time of year it is, it's always kind of pleasant it's just pleasant, right, so they don't even need it yeah, so, uh, I was look, I was listening around on some podcasts, kelly, as we were trying to get our head around what hvacology is, and man, I'm listening to some of these and we spend like five minutes. No, like 20 minutes, 20 minutes, but yeah. But I would say we have decades of knowledge in this industry, so I feel like maybe we're adequately prepared on that front.
Speaker 3:I feel like we are, and we know that our guests are extremely adequately prepared.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah and uh, what did we say that we need to make sure we did? Beginning of this episode? I remember Okay, go.
Speaker 3:Okay, so please be sure that you like or subscribe to our podcast, hvacology.
Speaker 2:Yes, because it helps more than you know, because other people will find out about it, Right? And then the other question that I have been fielding is who in the world is HVACology's audience? Is who in the world is HVACology's audience and my answer to that.
Speaker 3:Kelly is contractors, engineers, sales folks what?
Speaker 2:kind of sales folks. Well, I would think in our industry.
Speaker 2:All right, but it could be anything. You know, I've had people come over here from the medical field and and uh, all over the place, and then, last but not least, technicians as well. Uh, my hope is is really just anybody in the hvac business is is this is something that they can listen to and hopefully find enjoyable? Um, yeah, so all right, so we've done the like and subscribe. We've realized that we don't do a lot of research in this, but we find wonderful guests.
Speaker 3:We do, and we know what our target audience is so we're getting there, like as of episode four, we're doing pretty good, I think we are.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I'm very proud of you. I'm very proud, proud of me. Yeah, yeah, we've done a lot Good for us.
Speaker 3:We're out there killing it.
Speaker 2:So today we have as our guest Mr Rick Schnarr, and Rick Schnarr and I go way back. A lot of people don't know this, but he and I worked at Carrier Corporation many moons ago and I really came to, like Rick, appreciate him, both his knowledge and his just ability to really provide a solution for the customer. And it always stuck with me what his capabilities were, and you you know he's since left. I think he went over to johnson controls for a little while yeah, I was there for, yeah, for about six years.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly well, I don't, I don't, I don't spoil anything. So that's okay, yeah the question that I like to ask folks when they've come on with us is take us from the day that pretty day and maybe in May that you graduated high school all the way up until today and kind of walk us through that high level. How in the world you get from high school having no idea what you're going to do, probably all the way up to this ready set go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I had no idea. You're right, I had no idea. So well, thank you, ryan. Obviously it was a great pleasure to see you again after all those years working together and then landing in the same spot. So that's great.
Speaker 4:I came to Hoppin about a year ago, but in 1975, I left a little town in southern Indiana, a little farming community. I was a pig farmer in Indiana and my wife says it's the best witness protection program she's ever seen. I'm not sure why program she's ever seen. I'm sure why, but she doesn't say that. So but I left there and joined the Navy.
Speaker 4:I spent six years on a nuclear-powered submarine based out of Pearl, back right in the middle of the Cold War between 75 and 81. So that's how I actually got started in this industry. I was kind of like an underwater millwright. Right Air conditioning, hydraulics, pneumatics, refrigeration anything that wasn't attached to the nuclear power plant was my responsibility. So also it was the ship's diver, among other things. So left the Navy, went to work for a small distributor in Southern Indiana, in Evansville, a brine distributor way back in the day, started working on the parts counter, became a residential salesperson, then became a commercial salesperson and a branch manager eventually. And then since then I've really moved up from, you know, into more sales management for some of the larger organizations. I worked for Trane for several years and, you know, had the lucky lucky enough to actually live and work in Hawaii for about seven years, which wasn't all bad.
Speaker 3:So it was terrible, it was terrible.
Speaker 4:It was hard being me out there. But beyond that I really worked for Johnson Controls in a lot of senior leadership roles and then I was asked if I would be interested in moving to Virginia and to help Hoffman with growing their markets in the state of Virginia. So I've been in the business almost 46 years and it's been from residential to commercial to heavy applied. I even worked for people who developed VVT back in the early 80s for Carrier and so I kind of got my start there, really cut my teeth with a lot of that stuff with controls back in the early 80s. So that's kind of how I got where I'm at. Now I'm helping Hoffman and Hoffman grow the business in the Virginias. So I'm glad to be here, Very cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things I've always appreciated about you, rick, is that I can tell that you take the time to really know what it is that you're trying to offer your clients no-transcript, and the fact that he could go in and talk to just every aspect of those products was very impressive to me, rick.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that, thanks. It's because it comes with a lot of gray hair and stepping on a lot of rakes in my lifetime.
Speaker 3:Stepping on a lot of rakes.
Speaker 4:Stepping on a lot of rakes.
Speaker 2:Very good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, two topics I've always wanted to talk with you about, rick, is series counterflow and heat recovery, and I'll let you pick which one do you want to start off with discussing?
Speaker 4:Well, let's talk a little bit about heat recovery first, because because that seems to be in today's markets, in today's industry, the direction of electrification, decarbonation, the reduction of fossil fuels. It became a huge opportunity for both energy savings and also to be environmentally responsible, right, so go ahead. Sorry, you have a question, ryan.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say, maybe to start off with the listeners, for the person that doesn't know what heat recovery is, maybe let's dial in what is exactly heat recovery.
Speaker 4:So heat recovery can come in several fashions, if you will right. If you think about it, it's really about recovering heat that's being wasted either to the ambient or the outside, and recovering that heat and then putting it to use somewhere else in the building or in the system. Ideally, you know most systems. When you look at energy recovery, it's typically measured in something called coefficient of performance. It's typically measured in something called coefficient of performance. In other words, how efficient are you in removing or taking heat from where it's being wasted and putting it somewhere where it's actually valuable and useful to reduce energy costs?
Speaker 4:That's the whole point of it is to reduce energy costs and also then in such a way that doesn't make a whole complicated means of getting there with a lot of fancy controls. Those kind of things can be as basic as picking up heat and exhaust, right, and then transferring it to to heating for outside air into the building, right. So it's really about moving heat from one space or energy from one location and then reusing it somewhere else and through an efficient means of doing that, and there's several ways to do that, right. So it's really just that energy recovery is just recovering any energy you can to reuse it versus getting it wasted somewhere where it can't be used.
Speaker 2:I like that you said that. So my background, as you know, is physics, and so one of the things that people don't appreciate is heat, is energy, and what is cold? Cold is the absence of heat, and a lot of people don't think of it that way, but it's the absence of that energy. And so being able to take the energy from a building, and you can do that through the medium, like you said, of air we're talking energy recovery, ventilation and then we're also talking about anything from a medium of refrigerant which you could look at from a VRV standpoint, variable refrigerant volume, or you can look at it from a chill water aspect as well to where, instead of rejecting that heat energy to a cooling tower, you're now taking it and unloading your boiler inside your building.
Speaker 4:Exactly. And if you combine the technology of heat recovery with, more importantly recently, are water-to-water systems like water-cooled chillers, right that in the past would have rejected all their heat to the cooling tower, right? If you're familiar at all with the chill water system, you know you pick up heat in the building, you know you transfer that heat through a compressor into a condenser and they typically then pump that heat and water out to a cooling tower where it's rejected, and then pump back into the chiller to reuse that water. So in the last 10 years, let's say, the development of heat recovery through water-to-water type applications has really grown. Combine that then with the topic we just mentioned earlier, which was a series counterflow application, and that's when you're really talking about chillers or plants that have two or more large machines, traditionally Right. So if I go back, if I go back to my days in Hawaii, where you know most of that was hospitality, right, hospitals and a lot of hotels, as you can imagine, right? So what do the hotels need most?
Speaker 4:hot water water right for, for laundry and for and for and for, you know, keeping customers comfortable. So in many cases you know they had a chill water system, but they really they also have then a separate boiler. Okay, uh, typically it's either steam, you know, a steam gas fired steam boiler. So using gas fossil fuel to heat up, to heat, to heat up hot water, to steam, okay, um, to then use with with uh within the building. So if there's some way you could capture uh, the heat that you, that you would want to use uh to heat for hot water, for, for the, for the laundry and for the kitchen and for all those things you need it for, um, in some way that it didn't use fossil fuel, ideally, yeah, at the same time provided an off benefit of chilled water. Okay, so that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So far, yeah, it does you know, uh, I was gonna while you're talking. It reminds me of an example from about 10 years ago. I had a hotel customer and what we did was they said hey, we like you a lot, but we don't really need you right now as far as from a project standpoint. And what I came back with, after kind of looking at their mechanical room, was I said hey, if I can get you something under two-year payback, is that something of value to you? And they said, yeah, absolutely, but I don't think there's anything here. And so what I ended up providing was a pony chiller that was sized for the minimum load, for what they needed, for both the hot side and the cold side.
Speaker 2:And what they found was is that, by unloading the most inefficient thing in your entire building, which is that boiler, it was insane cost savings for them, and it was such a no brainer that they went from having no desire to do anything to, all of a sudden, this, this Polny chiller and, for those of you listening, a Polny chiller, basically, is that that kind of that smaller machine inside your mechanical room. Uh, this Polny chiller was running nonstop and it was providing, uh, you know, you can call it free cooling or free heating, whichever way you want to go with it, but to some aspect it was helping the entire system overall to where, especially during those swing months, they didn't have to bring on that large machine which is typically the biggest uh energy hog in your entire building. Is that giant chiller building? Is that giant chiller? And you know, Rick, I don't know if you want to talk about this thing, but the biggest sin that I see engineers commit is is that they try to have it to where everything looks identical inside the mechanical room.
Speaker 2:They're not okay with. Let's do a screw over here, let's do a centrifugal over here and, by the way, that screw is going to be this size and that centrifugal is going to be this size. They don't map it to the actual needs of the customer. They'll just map it to where there's redundancy built in there.
Speaker 4:Right. Well, if you look at most plants today, most chill water systems in the last 15 years or so, they may know for two or more chillers, two smaller chillers versus a large tonnage of a chiller in the earlier days, one for redundancy plus, most especially, centrifugals are the most efficient, somewhere between 40 and 50 percent right. Below 40 percent, 30 percent to become very inefficient machines. So to your point, ryan, about the minimum load. You had a large machine operating at a minimum load, not very efficient, right. And so if you could use a smaller machine to take up the part load efficiency of the large machine that it's really primarily running up at part load and at the same time producing hot water, right, based off of that, off of that, off the uh, the heat of compression is coming off that small pony chiller. So if you go one step further than that, further that with multiple machines, then we got into using one, one compressor on one chiller. That was fixed speed. The second chiller was a compression, had a variable speed drive on it, right. So the whole relationship there was. You know, I'm going to have two chillers in parallel. I'm going to use the one machine with a vFD at the peak load, right and then use steady state in between and then use this chiller with a VFD on the part load lower loads of the plant.
Speaker 4:Now you had a mixed energy efficiency, if you will, a system part load between those two chillers. So, and those were something really referred to as a parallel, meaning you had two machines in parallel right with the same type of piping arrangement. Typically it was 54 entering 44 degree, leaving on the evaporator, 85 degree entering 95 degree, leaving on the condenser. Well, if you go one step further to that, then you look at a series counterflow arrangement. If you look at series counterflow, we talked just a minute ago about a 10 degree delta T from 55 to 45 on the evaporator, 10 degree delta T on the condenser at 95, 85. So whenever you look at any centrifugal chiller or even a variable speed screw machine, you have to be concerned about lift, and lift's a common term within the industry.
Speaker 2:Industry I was going to talk about that, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 4:That's the difference between leaving chill water and leaving condenser water. Okay. So the higher the lift, the more the machine has to work, the less efficient it is right. So if you can use a series counterflow arrangement where you're taking half of that temperature difference across two machines in series, right, but the flow is counter in a counterflow direction between the evaporator and the condenser, now you've saved about 25% efficiency, getting much better part load between the two machines, getting much better part load between the two machines. But they both then also need to be sized to maintain the full 10 degree delta T in case something happens to one of the machines.
Speaker 4:So in reality, a series counterflow with a centrifugal chiller less attractive because most centrifugals don't do well on high lift. So where the business has really really progressed is using a variable speed screw machine, a positive displacement machine that doesn't really care about lift. It'll run forever at high lift. If you put those in series counterflow now you're really utilizing the best of two worlds high lift capability with better efficiency, right, and splitting the load across the two machines. So series counter flows has been used productively in some plant designs. But it comes down to understanding what the flows need to be what the minimum flow needs to be and the rate of change.
Speaker 4:All those things make a difference right.
Speaker 2:So I had a customer that was an industrial, um, it was a paper mill, and what they had was is they would pull river water in and they would sit them in these pools and then they would pull it in as they needed for their process and they'd run it through a sand filter to kind of clean out the the river water and what they were.
Speaker 2:Came to me and they said, hey, we need this 90 degree water to come out at 45 degrees or 40 degrees for our process.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, bro, you can't do it and, uh, at least with the current situation where you have one machine, let me tell you about something called series counterflow, yeah, and, and what we were able to do was is take that 90 degree water, you know, knock it down about halfway, uh, and then take it through the second machine and knock it down the rest of the way down and, like you said, by doing that the it, the amount of work that the machine had to do, that lift was a lot lower on on each one to make it to where they we could effectively get that 90 degree water down to 40 degrees. So I think, for those that are listening, if you're in a situation to where you are trying to get a big delta T basically the water coming into the machine versus the water leaving and you're like scratching your head trying to figure out what in the world can I do? The answer a lot of times can be series counterflow, if you've got the real estate for two machines.
Speaker 4:That's correct. Yeah, and two's just the start right.
Speaker 4:Then you could go into a series counterflow and then a series parallel counterflow arrangement right, but in all reality, to your point, ryan series counterflow for high delta T applications is perfect. And then you combine that with something called variable primary flow. Yep, now you're getting the the really the advantage of lower pump horsepower right as well as as is a higher delta t. Um, or higher delta t cross both machines, but half that delta t cross each independent machine. So um, from from a, I like to talk about things in system part load, and system part load is is that all the, which is the pumps, the towers and the chillers, right, because what's connected to the plant or the building is not just the chiller, it's all the things that support it. Right, that's?
Speaker 3:right.
Speaker 4:So you have to make sure that the system is designed properly with pressure drops and flow rates and minimum flow and those things, to make sure that you don't put the system in a situation where the chiller actually is less efficient because when you're applying it right, yeah so absolutely, so I have.
Speaker 3:So all of these. You know I am obviously the generalist right in this group. You guys are the experts. So the things that you're saying to me, the chillers and the cooling towers, those belong to the bigger applications, the big hospitals and the industrial processes. Is there any opportunity for some smaller commercial spaces to utilize heat recovery? Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yes, and so now? So we've been talking about major systems, right? Large central plants, those kinds of things, right. Heat recovery can also come in the way of airside heat recovery. Okay, actually transfers that savings, if you will, from the return side, or exhaust side, to the supplier side, so you're reducing the amount of temperature entering the building that you have to heat, cool, right, and that can start out at 200 CFM for residential.
Speaker 2:So, kelly, maybe another way to put that is if you've got this building and you know you have to bring in fresh air. So ASHRAE ASHRAE, which is a governing body, requires us to have so much outside air inside of our commercial grade buildings. What you can do is you can take bathroom exhaust and you can, because you've already got to exhaust that anyway and you can take the heat energy from that air and you can put it through what's called an ERV energy recovery ventilation and it passes through one side and what it does is it actually pushes its heat energy without actually moving the air space. The air does not touch each other, so you don't.
Speaker 2:Basically, you know the stinky air, if you will, from bathrooms is not getting back into your system, but the heat energy from it, or the cool from it, will transfer over to the air that's coming from the outside, and so if you can knock a few degrees off of that outside air, it actually can have tremendous savings for you inside the rest of the building. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely so. Even a small commercial office building could take advantage of this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, even small packaged equipment you know, like, even you know that you use on a like a strip mall right or those kind of things and if they have a lot of required exhaust, then being able to recover that air right to preheat the other air coming in the building, it's just an intermediate, it's just an immediate savings. It's 70 to no brainer 80% efficient yeah, it's really a no brainer. Talking about this brings me back to when I was about four or five years ago. I was living in the Pacific Northwest and decarbonization, meaning the real estate reduction of fossil fuels, became a huge, huge driving factor in that market and industry. So in a lot of a lot of, there's a lot of bio, biomed applications up there, a lot of vivariums, a lot of labs, right, that kind of associated with that. Um. And so in previous to be working with this design bill contractor, they were using a lot of air-to-water heat pumps, right, and air-to-water heat pumps are great, they have their applications. But in some cases, you know, they can be a little bit prone to a lot of service, okay, and not quite as efficient, quite honestly, as they could be.
Speaker 4:Remember we talked earlier about COP. Well, coefficient performance is typically it's the amount of heat that's being used, absorbed compared to the amount of heat it's generating. Okay, so let's just take electric water here. You know, you use one KW of heat, which is, you know about 3,400 BTUs, and you're going to get 3,400 BTUs of heat out of that. So that means for every BTU you use, you're going to produce one BTU of heat. That's called a COP of one. Okay, okay, if you use the same application but use a fossil fuel boiler or a hot water heater, it's only 80% efficient and that means it's got a COP of 0.8. So now I'm 20% less efficient than if I was using a straight electric. Okay, yeah, ideally you want to get to about three or four times that amount to be efficient. So you want a COP of 3.5 to 4.
Speaker 4:Well, most air to water heat pumps were in that 3.5 to 4. Well, most air-to-water heat pumps were in that 3.5 to 4 ratio. So they were four times more efficient than a straight gas-fired boiler. Okay so, but again, they were set on the roof. They were somewhat prone to service. There were, you know, things that are different about that application.
Speaker 4:So we came up with a design where we know we had X amount of CFM of exhaust in the Biberium. Let's say we had 50,000 CFM of exhaust. Ok, we had 50,000 CFM of airflow providing air to the space so hot. So in this case we actually utilized a water to water heat pump chiller. We put a coil in the exhaust to operate as the evaporator during that mode. So I'm essentially cooling the exhaust air that I'm wasting anyway, right, and then I'm producing hot water, because now that condenser becomes a hot water coil produce 140 degrees for the building, for preheat, all things that need for hot water. Now, because I have a simultaneous heating and cooling load, you can take the COP on the cooling side, cop on the heating side and add the two together. Now you have a cpu cop of almost eight, eight times more efficient than a gas boiler.
Speaker 3:Okay, you're like a magician.
Speaker 4:No, I'm not sure about that, but here's here's a great part. Then in the summertime we would use that same coil and exhaust now as the condenser right. So it was rejecting heat and exhaust that we get rid of anyway. They would normally go to a cooling tower. What we do, we save water because no cooling tower usage. We reduce the size of the cooling tower right, and we had a COP again of eight or better. So that design became the standard for this mechanical contractor on every building he did for the next five years. So it was using a 250 ton water water chiller versus, you know, much bigger system. So if I think back, that's, I guess, is probably one of the things I remember most of being able to use today's technology to turn it into something eight times more efficient that's very cool.
Speaker 2:You know the things that we're talking about today, as as as we're discussing um. So we all I've operated in the southeast right, and one of the things that southeast has it is glorious is is that we have historically had cheap energy, right and so heat recovery didn't really make a lot of sense in situations. Siri count series, counter flow as an answer didn't make a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:But as, as time has gone on, I don't know about you but I am finding that our, our dollar per kw has are gotten much higher in the southeast, and so I just think, across the board, you're going to start finding people needing to figure out clever ways, and I think that this is this is something to help us get to that next level.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. And I think the use of water, water heat pumps and that type of applications to reduce energy use, reduce carbonization right, reduce abuse of fossil fuel, all these are headed that way, right, and I think in some ways, you know us in the Southeast are a little spoiled because the use of fossil fuels hasn't been quite you know, the alarm button, right, for whatever reasons. But you take some places like in the Pacific Northwest, I mean you can't, it's almost Pacific Northwest, I mean you can't, it's almost outdated, you can't get a fossil fuel boiler in a new installation anymore.
Speaker 2:So yeah, one more thing to note. Kelly, you were talking about smaller places. To where can things like this be useful? I actually had a job one time where they were going for a LEED. The building was going, I think LEED Platinum maybe, anyway, and LEED basically is saying that this building qualifies because its efficiency is very high or the cost to run it is very low. Run it is very low. Anyway, we were looking for some lead credit and actually figured out that, if I took two air-cooled chillers, which you see a lot of our market moving over from water-cooled over, to air-cooled especially since air-cooled has become so much more efficient as time goes on.
Speaker 2:And not just that, but as far as from a technician standpoint, it seems like a lot more folks feel probably more comfortable working on air-cooled chillers than they do water-cooled machines. Anyway, this particular solution we provided, we actually ran the air-cooled chillers in series and by doing that, having that lower delta T in between the two machines, actually caused it to where their efficiency is shot way up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you're, if you're looking for that lead, that next lead credit or something to get you over the edge. You know you could look at running your air cold chillers and these were standard machines. There's nothing special. In fact, I think they were in stock machines. Uh, if you run them in series and get that delta t a little bit lower on both of them and then have a higher delta t that you're providing to the space, you know, you can shrink down a lot of your equipment out in the building and you can also get your efficiency at your chiller plant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. But you're magical too.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah magician there we go. Yeah, the HVAC magicians. That's right, I likeician there we go. Yeah, the HHVAC magicians.
Speaker 3:That's right, I like it.
Speaker 2:Well, cool, Well, Rick, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate your knowledge and your wisdom. Do not be surprised if Kelly comes knocking again whenever.
Speaker 4:I have a new subject to bring to you. I'm glad to help any way I can. I appreciate the opportunity to share this Absolutely so uh.
Speaker 2:Opportunity to share this Absolutely so uh. If you are listening and there is a topic that you were saying to yourself, I really wish that Kelly and Ryan would bring this up. Uh, send it to us on our social media. By the time you hear this podcast. All of that will be live, uh, so find us on social media Facebook, instagram. Where else do you think it will be, kelly?
Speaker 3:It will be on YouTube. It will be on LinkedIn probably too, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, whenever you're, if you have something that you'd love for us to do, just reach out to us on social media. We will be sure to add that to the podcast and, uh, anything else, kelly.
Speaker 3:I've got nothing, ryan. I really very much enjoyed talking to Rick today, though I might be knocking on Rick's door anytime I have any kind of question.
Speaker 2:God love you, thank you.
Speaker 4:He's great.
Speaker 2:He's great with love life questions as well, I'm going to send all the people in my department.
Speaker 3:To you then, Rick.
Speaker 4:Listen, I'm not the poster child for that. Anybody who knows me knows that, so I leave that alone, nope we're all coming to you.
Speaker 2:You're a magician of love and a magician of nature. Don't do that.
Speaker 3:I got you, we're good All right, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys.
Speaker 4:This is the end.
Speaker 2:And make sure you like and subscribe, take care.
Speaker 4:Awesome. Thank you guys.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye anymore. Got lost inside a daydream, get sick of all schemes they play on their machines. Lost so many words as I got older. You would have thought I would have started. I accidentally wrote these words down, thought all the best of me Faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside. But you to bring back the words inside. But you always bring me back into blue eyes.
Speaker 1:20 years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me? I drove an hour to see you. Things just seem to matter more to me anyway. Got lost in reality. No answers to cancer. We never got to talk, always meant to write these words down, thought all the best of you faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back into blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on my left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me. Outro Music.
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