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HVAC-ology
Welcome to "HVAC-ology," your podcast for all things related to commercial HVAC systems! Whether you're an experienced technician, an HVAC engineer, a curious business owner, or simply someone interested in understanding the parts and pieces of HVAC systems, this podcast is perfect for you.
In each episode, our expert hosts and enthusiasts delve into the complex world of commercial heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC). We cover everything from the latest equipment technology advancements to practical tips.
Music credits: "Bring Me Back" by Deleveled (instrumental for intro and with lyrics for outtro).
HVAC-ology
From Kenny Rogers to Federal Prisons Management: Jeff Bowe's Journey
Jeff Bowe's remarkable career trajectory reads like a modern-day Forrest Gump story, taking unexpected turns through the entertainment industry, federal prison system, and government contracting. During this fascinating conversation, Jeff shares how a college football injury led him to join Kenny Rogers' tour crew selling merchandise, eventually becoming one of Kenny's personal bodyguards and flying on private jets to performances nationwide.
When a chance conversation with a fellow deputy sheriff revealed significantly higher pay at federal prisons, Jeff pivoted again, beginning a decades-long career with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Rising through the ranks across eight different states, he developed expertise in facilities management while supervising inmate work programs. His natural talent for recognizing inefficiencies and implementing practical solutions helped him transform failing operations into successes.
Perhaps most fascinating is Jeff's work with Federal Prison Industries, where inmates manufactured everything from military vehicle components to missile command system wiring harnesses. Under his leadership, these programs not only saved taxpayer money but provided inmates with valuable vocational skills that reduced recidivism. In one particularly successful initiative, Jeff brokered relationships with private employers who hired his trained inmates immediately upon release.
Ryan and Kelly expertly draw out the connecting threads between Jeff's diverse experiences, highlighting how his curiosity and willingness to question established processes ("We've always done it this way" being his most hated phrase) led to innovations across multiple industries. Listeners will find valuable insights about transferable skills, relationship building, and approaching problems with fresh perspective regardless of their field.
Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and share with anyone who might be interested!
Welcome to the HVACology experience, where we talk about all things HVAC industry topics that are so hot, they are cool.
Speaker 2:We are live for HVACology and I am here with my very lovely co-host, kelly Patterson. How are you, ma'am? I am fantastic.
Speaker 3:Ryan Hudson. How are you, ma'am? I am fantastic, Ryan Hudson. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I am doing wonderful, thank you. However, you know the day's not over with yet. It could all go downhill from here. We don't know yet it could. No, we don't. The thing is, Kelly, I feel like you, and I can always roll with those old punches, don't you?
Speaker 3:I do. We just keep getting back up. I don't know why, but we do.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I am bummed about? Kelly Patterson.
Speaker 3:What are you bummed about?
Speaker 2:We never had an advertiser on this podcast. We never had this moment where we were in-depth conversation. All of a sudden it break into a weird commercial to where we're talking about. Have you ever tried?
Speaker 3:Pepto-Bismol. Wait, did I just? I just advertised for Pepto just now. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Somebody's going to buy Pepto from the old CVS or Walgreens. I think they will, because of Kelly Patterson throwing it out there.
Speaker 3:And they're going to go to CVS or Walgreens because of you. We just advertised again.
Speaker 2:Three ads in less than 15 seconds. So, kelly, I have really gotten on this. I watched this documentary about this guy who's trying to like slow himself down from aging and like all these different things that he's trying, and so I've been like trying to get more like these, uh, greens into my body. Uh, my wife subscribes to these things and she's been taking them for a long time. I was like I'm gonna start taking those too, which did not make her happy, because she's like I have to double my order now.
Speaker 2:Thanks and those things are expensive, yeah they are expensive I know and now I'm on this new kick of getting onto amino acids to try and help like build muscle and all of these things. So I'll report back on how it works. And if you, if, if you see me walk around the office and the shirt looks a little tight around the arms, it's the amino acids.
Speaker 3:I'll make a comment. I'll be like all right those amino acids are working for you, Ryan Hudson.
Speaker 2:I'm amino acids. I really kicked in for you I appreciate your health kick. So, kelly, I don't know if I have ever waited so long in anticipation for a podcast episode as I have for this one and really to get all of our calendars synced up. This is a big moment for me yeah so today we have on here are my very, very good friend jeff bow. Hey, jeff, how are you?
Speaker 4:doing great guys. Thank you great.
Speaker 2:Looking forward to talking with you guys today and the opportunity to uh to share so what got me wanting to have jeff on the podcast was one I love this guy's stories. He's one of those guys, kelly, that, like you, could sit down for like five hours a day for like two weeks and be like, uh-huh, tell me more uh-huh, yes. And so I'm excited really, probably for the piece of this where we talk non HVAC stuff, because I think, as I've said earlier, I think the world is going to be a better place after people hear this podcast episode of, like Jeff Bo is like the like that you know why you love Forrest Gump is because, like all of these things like piled on to get to this place of where it's at, and so Jeff's story is just so good. But then how this will dovetail into HVAC and HVACology is that I have the privilege of myself and another guy, chevy DeWolf, and a few others that help support Jeff and his team.
Speaker 2:We work with them as far as the government is concerned and this whole idea that's been out there for a little while now since Donald Trump has been in office of DOGE Department of Government Efficiency. Their team, jeff's team, has been working to help make them efficient for a very long time and I I'm excited too, to kind of talk about how he's able to put common sense into these government facilities, and so we'll kind of dive into that towards the end. Sound good, sounds great, okay. So, jeff, one of the things we like to ask people and I'm hoping that we're going to stay here for a little while Tell me how in the world you got from high school to where you're at today. And, if you don't mind, kelly and I are probably going to pop in with questions in here and there, and yes, let's go, no problem.
Speaker 4:Again, thanks for having me on guys. It's my first podcast, so I so been looking forward to getting together you folks and talking about some of these items. But um, but yeah, no, I um interesting, I guess to some people. I don't know, it's kind of old hat to me obviously, but uh, but yeah, um started out born in west virginia, moved at an early age to north carolina, to durham, north Carolina. My father was pursuing his PhD at Duke University, so we lived there through that. I went to high school in Durham, got recruited and ended up playing football for a very small college, lenore Ryan, in Hickory, north Carolina.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 4:Lenore Ryan. Yeah, there you go. Kind of an interesting situation there. But anyway, long story short, I was there a very short time. I ended up hurting my knee the second game of the season. So I went through all the you know, the five a day practices that you go through in college and everything else, and I ended up hurting my knee there. And you know it was a situation where they were going to red shirt me up hurting my knee there. And you know it was a situation where they were going to red shirt me.
Speaker 4:And you know, at that time, being the young individual that I was and uh, probably a little, uh, you know, uh, impatient, I didn't want to, I didn't want to do the red shirt thing. So, um, I was in contact, uh, with my cousin. He's a year older than me, uh, lives in nashville, been living in tennessee most of his life, but ironically, his father, my uncle, was Kenny Rogers tour excuse me, manager on the road there, promoter, I should say and he started out back in the early days with Loretta Lynn and Conway Twitty, back when I was much younger, obviously, back in those days. But anyway, kind of worked his way up with Kenny and I called my cousin one evening and explained this whole story to him, where I hurt my knee. They wanted to redshirt me. I wasn't really feeling that they want to stay there five years. And he said, well, can you be in Nashville tomorrow night at midnight? And I said, well, I guess I can. I mean, I never thought about that. So you know, hickory, north carolina, nashville is not that far drive.
Speaker 4:Um, so I loaded up the old 68 dodge dart, jumped in and headed to nashville, didn't tell my parents anything, you know about this at the time. So the reason I was going there, um, they were starting a tour with kenny uh out in California and, uh, the bus tour bus was leaving at midnight that evening. The next evening. So, uh, I was going to be part of the t-shirt crew selling, you know, hats, bandanas, t-shirts, that kind of thing for Kenny Rogers. Um, and again, this is 1980, I guess 82, maybe around that timeframe, kind of dating myself here now. Um, but uh, so anyway, I did that, got out there, jumped on a bus, woke up in, I think, la, not lower Alabama, los Angeles, that's where we went on the tour. So got that uh drive under my belt and um, you know, back then it was very, um, appealing, because you know we were making six, seven, eight, because you know we were making six, seven, eight hundred dollars, you know nine hundred, even a thousand dollars in t-shirts in 82.
Speaker 3:That's huge money in 82.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, when he told me that I was, like man, I'm in. So, you know, I was, like I said before, just left the football program, you know, lifting weights back then in very, very good shape program, you know, lifting weights back then in very, very good shape. Um, and so we were selling the t-shirts, uh, and kenny's brother, whose name, ironically, is roy, roy rogers, not the same roy in the movies, but anyway um, he was, uh, the chief of security for kenny. So after about I think it was maybe a month of being out on the road, uh, roy approached me and said hey, we've got a opportunity. We're hiring another bodyguard. We're currently going to be employing five bodyguards that will be on the road with us. He said would you like to, you know, to have that job? And I said, well, you know what's it entail.
Speaker 4:You know, he kind of talked a little bit about it and basically, you know it was another pay raise and, um, all the clothing you know, custom clothes were included in that. You know, cowboy boots. Back then we all wore the same thing. Uh, you know you, you flew instead of driving or riding the bus, I should say, to the start of each tour or at the end of each tour. As part of the kenny rogers personal staff, I flew first class to meet the tour, as did the other bodyguards and sound manager, road manager, that type of thing.
Speaker 2:So I took that job. Can we ask you a couple questions real quick? Yeah, go ahead, man, so rewind a little bit. So how did it feel growing up and going from West Virginia to Hickory, north Carolina? All of a sudden you wake up one morning and you're in Los Angeles. Like the culture shock of that. Was that not crazy, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was, it was, uh, it was, it was very uh different, you know, um, but again, you know, I had family there and my uncle had my cousin, you know who obviously we are close to this day, um, so it kind of eased that a little bit and, uh, you know, know, it wasn't the first experience, um, with that type of touring. Um, I did mention earlier, my uncle was, uh, you know, conway twiggy, loretta lynn's uh promoter early on. So, um, I did have an opportunity back when I was in I think it was in grade school um, one summer when school was out, my uncle called my mother and said hey, we're going on tour with loretta lynn and we're going to be going through, uh, you know, california, arizona and a few other states, Vegas, that kind of thing. So, you know, he asked if I could accompany and be, you know, with my younger cousin there. So I did that and we rode in a much smaller motorhome back then instead of the big nice tour buses you see on the road, um, and went through all those states, got to meet, uh, loretta lynn at the time, great lady, very sweet um, she had two daughters that were about our age. So we four of us hit it off very well, hung out a lot out there on the road, um, and had that opportunity to go through vegas and, uh, petrified forest, and ended up a couple interesting things not to digress here, but we ended up going to Hollywood and Universal Studios at the time. So we were able to do the VIP tour as four young kids you know, her two daughters, my cousin and I got chauffeured around this studio, which is really nice, got to see everything you know, a lot of the famous TV shows you see and sets and that kind of thing. And then ended up the tour in Las Vegas and my cousin and I got kicked out of the casino down there Probably a dozen times for trying to gamble. We would ride the elevator down, put money in the slots and run back to the elevator and I had no concept of money back then.
Speaker 4:Kind of a funny story here to this. Um, we were in there in the room one night, maybe the first night we were there and my cousin said let's order room service. I said okay, how do you do that? We just pick the phone up and call and they bring the food to you. I said, okay, cool. So I picked the phone up, called down there and, uh, he's.
Speaker 4:I asked him prior. I said what do you want these? Let's do seafood. I said okay. I said what do you want to eat? He said let's do seafood. I said okay, I'm from North Carolina, you know.
Speaker 4:I love, you know, cold-boiled shrimp man. We used to get big plates of shrimp when I was a kid. I loved that. So I asked the gentleman. I said do you have shrimp? He said, oh, yes, sir, we do. We have shrimp cocktail. I said great, I six. And I said give me, uh, eight of them, you know. So we got shrimp cocktail and we never ate a meal in the restaurant. And my uncle got ready to check out, you know, three days later, and got our room bill and he came back out to the motor home and was, you know, somewhat astounded. He wasn't really mad, but he's somewhat astounded. He said you guys eat any meals at all in the restaurant? We're like, no, we didn't. We stayed up in the room the whole time. We, I think our, I think our room service bill was almost two grand for three days back, you know, back then. Yeah, so that's two t-shirt days, exactly, yeah also you were like the original macaulay colkin.
Speaker 3:like you were that kid in the hotel. Like incredible that's amazing?
Speaker 4:Probably so. Yeah, it was very. It was fun. I got to see a lot of country and, you know, got to experience some things I wouldn't have experienced as a younger kid.
Speaker 2:When you look back at that, do you think about the freedom that you had in that time of your life? I mean to be a young person and just hopping on a bus and oh, by the way, these are super famous people and I'm just, I'm just riding around with them. I mean, how incredible is that? That's so cool yeah it was great.
Speaker 4:I really feel lucky to have had that experience. You're right, but that did you know. Like I said, it wasn't. So back to the la, you know thing, I had my family there and it was somewhat of an easy transition. I you know, like I said, it wasn't. So back to the LA, you know the thing, I had my family there and it was somewhat of an easy transition. I guess, you know, the switching over to the bodyguard was not because it was, uh, you know I wasn't around the family as much. I did see my uncle in the dressing room, obviously because he was a promoter, so I got to see him every day.
Speaker 4:But um, as part of the, the personal staff, you know, we were in a kind of a different environment. Uh traveled differently than the crew, than the band. Um did so uh had the opportunity to fly on his personal, his private jet, you know. Back to, uh, kenny used to fly home every night pretty much depending where we were. Um to georgia. We had a big ranch in athens and um at the time right outside of athens, I should say. So we would fly, would fly into the Atlanta airport and usually helicopter over to the, to the, to the ranch and there was a guest house there that was I'm not sure how many square feet. It was huge, probably 10,000, 11,000 square feet. Maybe I may be exaggerating somewhat, but that's where the band and the bodyguards would stay while we were at the at the ranch. So that was kind of another, you know, unique experience there, because it was pretty much anything you wanted. You know 24-hour chef there would cook anything you wanted. Everything was. You know you wanted to drink, was there eat? Was there you?
Speaker 3:could order shrimp cocktail.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly, you had more shrimp cocktail, had lakes there you could fish, you could jet ski, they would you know we had. They had big uh areas, they would you know cook out while we were at the lake just messing around and that kind of thing. So it was pretty, uh, pretty fun on, uh you know time doing that. But uh, but yeah, so that's kind of how that you know, that transition took place the first one, and then, uh, I did the bodyguard uh thing for probably I'm guessing about four years maybe. Um, and then there came a time when, uh, I knew they were downsizing. Actually, um, and very good friend of mine, uh, one of the other bodyguards, um, his wife was was very ill and, um, I knew they were gonna let one of us go. So I stepped down from that role and went back on the T-shirt crew, ironically, and told my cousin I said I want to learn this business, I want to be able to run the crew, settle with the building manager every night, do that kind of thing. So he kind of put me through my paces.
Speaker 4:I went out on some smaller tours. I went out with Dwight Yoakam, which was great, great individual, got to be on the road with him. We did a lot of smaller venues like bars and that type of thing, which was way different environment obviously than being with Kenny Rogers where you're selling out 22,000 seats two times a day. So that was kind of a learning experience for me. Got to see a lot of the country there, did a lot of state fairs, that type of thing, you know. But that's how I learned. Basically you want to say the paperwork, the inner workings of how to settle with these building managers daily. You know, pay them, pay your guys, pay the taxes, do all the the reporting money goes back to the artist. Obviously there's a percentage and all that gets calculated. So it was a lot of effort, a lot of work into that, but came back around you learned logistics.
Speaker 2:You also learned efficiency too. If I remember correctly, you kind of figured out how to say, hey, I need this 18-wheeler to be in this location with all of this merchandise, and then that way you could kind of always stay fully supplied, right yeah, no, exactly right.
Speaker 4:When I went back and finally worked my way back into the kenny rogers tour and was running the merchandising crew, one of the first tours we did was a dolly parton and uh, I remember vividly, you know, prepping for that tour and, just like you said, I had tractor trailers stationed all across the country and they would just swap out because we would sell out a tractor trailer full in two nights, maybe two and a half at the most. You know, three, three, four shows would be out of merchandise. So you had to kind of plan for that. And I remember, unfortunately, dolly's uncle, who was a great individual I can't remember his name now, but he was running a merchandise and he called me prior to the start of the tour and we were discussing logistics, you know, and I told him I said, yeah, I hope you're ready, you know, because this is what we're doing a night. You know we're doing $100,000 a night in merchandise. And I said, you know this is you got to be prepared. He said, oh, we never do that. You know Dolly's great People love her. But you know, I've got a small motorhome with a pull-behind trailer. It's about 20 feet long and we've got T-shirts under the motorhome and everything. I said, well, I said you'll sell that out.
Speaker 4:Before intermission on the first show, he said, oh no God. He said I know Kenny's huge and Kenny does this. He said, but I think we'll be fine. I said, all right, no problem. I said, but you know, just be prepared to be shipping items in because you're going to lose a lot of money. And I said I'll work with you any way I can. But so anyway, long story short, we showed up and first show intermission, he came back to me, man, in a panic hey, listen, I've got no merchandise. I said, hey, you know I've lived through this, I know I've learned my lesson. And I said you know you got to get some stuff out here. So ended up after that, you know, he was able to do some. He did lose some money, but he was able to at least get his supply chain issues worked out and, and you know, sufficient enough to make uh, make some money.
Speaker 4:Um, but again, that was uh, that was a great tour. She's, she's a great lady. Uh, very, very, you know, business savvy individual, even to this day, um, but enjoyed working with her. You know, meeting her, uh and her staff, and it was just like I said, just a great, great tour, uh, to be a part of that operation with her. But you know, but it was like I said, the whole, the whole experience was was really I felt very fortunate to be a part of it. You know so many acts out there, you know, got to see some of the younger acts that were coming up. You know Sawyer Brown, mark Miller, when he, when he first started right off of I think it was called Star Search back then I believe we had him, him on tour opening up for Kenny and they were great, had some other acts out there that toured with us and had opportunity to interact with and had a very, very good experience with all those individuals. So I felt very, very lucky to be a part of that.
Speaker 2:So my wife has said to me before she's like I don't think anybody could get in between me and you, ryan, except for Dolly Parton. And I told her you're correct, I love Dolly Parton. I mean not just that she's a beautiful woman, but also just like her ability to like her jokes and like how quick witted she is, and just she's. She's talented on so many levels it's crazy. Yeah, she's, she's one of those people I would love to just sit down and hang out with.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, great lady, absolutely yeah. So I mean, you know it was like I said, it was a great experience and it was something again, I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to do. It Saw all 50 states, every province in Canada was able to tour there. Even with Dwight Yoakam went through Canada. That was a great tour. I think it was called the Hillbilly Deluxe Tour, based on his album it was out at the time so that was really good. But yeah, I enjoyed it. I got to see a lot of things and it was a but that.
Speaker 4:Having said that, that brings us kind of back to, you know, to the to the end of this. So, um, my cousin ended up, uh, losing the tour, the merchandising rights to Kenny, um, kind of in an interesting turn of events. But uh, so we got notified of that on tour. I think we were in Seattle Washington at the time and he said, hey, we finished this tour. You know, pack it up, this is it. So it kind of saw the writing on the wall. You know it was out there for a long time and I was ready for a change.
Speaker 4:So I came back to North Carolina where my parents were in Durham and I knew I had. You know, everybody's got to have a college degree and I ended my career with football so I had to get back into school. So I enrolled in a criminal justice program there in Durham and at that time I started working for the sheriff's department, um, in Durham County. It was a road deputy, Um, so that was, uh, I think around 87, I believe, maybe, maybe a little bit wrong. Yeah, I think it was 87, early 87, late 86, maybe Um, but anyway, um, I was out one night, uh, on patrol and uh, one of and one of the female deputies that I work with there, great lady, we were actually in the same criminal justice program together.
Speaker 4:We are stopped talking and she said I think I want to go apply for a federal correctional officer job at the federal prison over there in Butner, north Carolina. I'm like man, why would you do that? Know, because we rotated through the jail at the time and that was the worst part of that job was rotating in. Now, that jail on a friday, saturday night, the drunk tank, all that kind of stuff, you know, it was just really, really not my favorite thing, um, so anyway, she said, because I'm gonna tell you why?
Speaker 4:Um, they start out at 21,000 a year and I said, my God, I could see, you know, kind of a big transition from the Kenny days. I was making $14,000 a year as a road deputy when I was going to school. I said, my God, that's a $7,000 pay raise, man. I said I could, I could be a correctional officer, you know. So I went over there and applied, um, I think the next day off I had, I went in and applied and they, they hired me pretty much on the spot, you know and being a huge man kind of helps you with that.
Speaker 4:Almost six, five, yeah, it does, it does, but anyway. So I started doing that and, you know, at the same time going back to school and, uh, again very fortunate turn of events was able to get on with the federal government. Um, at the same time I was I was a deputy. I was always, you know, trying to uh do what I could do to earn money. So I had a landscaping crew that worked. I worked 12-hour shifts. They would meet me at eight o'clock in the morning. We'd go out, do our thing, come back, um, my deputy sheriff schedule was 8 pm to 8 am, so that kind of allowed me to facilitate some of those things during the day.
Speaker 4:But I was doing backhoe work, I was doing electrical work, I was doing you know just kind of odd jobs building decks, anything I could do, building sheds, like you know, digging out some foundations, that kind of thing, doing some tree work. So I got this job at the federal prison and that kind of had to stop because that was a Monday through Friday, typically, you know eight-hour jobs. That killed my daytime work. But fortunately, with that little bit of experience I had doing that, I was able to quickly move into a general maintenance mechanic role in the Federal Bureau of Prisons and, quite honestly, my whole goal in the federal prison system was to move out of that position. I wanted to be a deputy US marshal, I wanted to work for DEA. You had the glamour thing going on, you know. But once I started promoting within the federal prison system I realized, man, I'm making more money now than I would be as a deputy US Marshal or, you know, a DEA officer. So I kind of stuck that out, which I'm glad I did, very fortunate once again. So I was a general maintenance mechanic there in Butner and my roles there basically were I had like 140 inmates that I supervised inside the secure confines of the prison and outside and we maintained about 700 acres of landscaping. And I supervised inside the secure confines of the prison and outside and we maintained about 700 acres of landscaping and I maintained all the maintenance work at the federal prison camp there when they only had one camp back in the day. So that was kind of you know, some of my experience and I would also, you know, kind of I love learning new things. So I would always the HVAC technicians, the boiler techs there. I would always try to go along when I had time on those jobs and learn what I could learn, knowing that it would benefit me only in the future, as it did, obviously. So that's how the career started in federal law enforcement and maintenance.
Speaker 4:As part of that federal career, um, I traveled I think it was eight different States Um, my wife and I, highly mobile, obviously no children, so we kind of were able to move around. But each one of those was a promotion. So it worked out, you know, fantastic for me. I went from uh but in North Carolina, estill, south Carolina. Uh built a prison there in Estill, started that prison up, transferred from Estill to Denver, colorado. That was my first supervisory role. I think that was in 19, maybe 1994, I guess 93, if memory serves me right. So I was like a general foreman overseeing all the trades inside and out, about 35, 40 guys working for me that maintained everything electrical, plumbing, landscaping, communications, that type of thing.
Speaker 4:Stayed in Denver, then went to Springfield, missouri. Springfield, missouri was a lateral transfer for me. I went there as general foreman, also A bigger institution. It was a federal medical center. We had John Gotti there when I was there. So that was kind of a different transition, different role there, stayed there and then went to Manchester, kentucky. It was my first department head level position. I was actually a facility manager at Manchester. The warden at the time was a great friend of mine. We worked together at another institution, kind of knew each other. You know what our work habits were and how we handled ourselves. So he asked me to put in for that. I did and got it. Uh, was there?
Speaker 4:um for about a year and a half, maybe two years did you actually, did you actually get to meet john gotti? Uh, went by the sale. I never got to meet him in person but you know, was going by the sale. We also shake ab Sheikh Abdul Rahman, the first World Trade Center bomber. He was there. Oh wow, I also saw him in Springfield Missouri.
Speaker 4:A lot of high-profile guys came through there. You know a lot of your famous gangster-type individuals came through there, so that was kind of an interesting duty station. But yeah, so went to Manchester, kentucky facility manager, then had the opportunity to go to Washington DC to our headquarters and I switched over to Unicor. I think we've talked about this?
Speaker 3:No, I'm just kidding. No, no.
Speaker 4:Switched over to Unicor, which is Federal Prison Industries. It was established in 1933 as a wholly owned government corporation and there's prisons inside, or, excuse me, there's factories inside the prisons across the country. I think at that time there were maybe 111 factories total, I believe but they did everything from furniture to textiles to communication equipment or electronics. I should say and they also the reason I went up there they were starting a new division up. That was a fleet division, so we were able to, I was able to be a part of that startup and was able to do MOUs with GSA, ironically, who controls the whole fleet for the United States government and also US Customs Border Protection. We did all of their vehicles and you still see some of those vehicles, that same paint schemes out there today, with the green and white stripe, what's.
Speaker 2:MOU what's MOU stand for?
Speaker 4:It's a memorandum of understanding, kind of typically between agencies, that's what they call them MOUs, uh, for services and you agree to do certain things, that type of thing, um. But yeah, so we're able to basically standardize their fleet. They had a situation where Northern Border Patrol sectors, southern Border Patrol sectors, where they ordered a Humvee, where they ordered a Jeep, a van, whatever it was, um, they would ship, gsa would ship those vehicles to the border patrol sectors and they were just white vehicles, had no lettering, no stenciling, no radios, no, you know, uh, cages built into them. They had no gun mounts, no radio mounts. So they had to locally find a individual, a shop that would put all that together, charge the government money to do that and then send it back to the border patrol and sometime later.
Speaker 2:So we um for the folks listening. What can you, uh, gsa? Can you make sure they know what that means too?
Speaker 4:yeah, general services administration. Uh, they're basically, uh, the landlord to the federal government. They control all the buildings, uh, pretty much all the federal buildings across the country, and they, they turn around and you and lease those spaces back to other federal agencies to occupy those buildings. But they also have a vehicle or a fleet division that's pretty much responsible for every federal vehicle across the US, actually CONUS and OCONUS, I should say too, outside the country as well, federal facilities. But we saw an opportunity there, ryan, to be able to, you know, save the government some money, provide them a service that would enhance, you know, their ability to perform their jobs. Basically, what we did, we had GSA drop ship all the vehicles to our factories around the country and we established a catalog, kind of like you go into a dealership and order a vehicle. We had all the vehicles outlined there, from Humvees to Jeeps, to vans, to MCI buses, and they could go in and pick what they wanted. We need 10 Humvees here. We need five, you know, rubicons, we need five. Whatever it was they got, they ordered those and the packages were standardized. So if they ordered a Humvee, you know, in Matamoros, wherever in Mexico, on the border down there, and then they also ordered one up in the northern Border Patrol sector. When they got that Jeep or that Humvee, I should say everything was the same place the radio was in the same place, the flashlight was in the same place, m16 rack was in the same place, shotgun same place. So if they transferred as agents and they were stuck in a God forbid a situation where they needed to reach for something very quickly in the middle of the night, they knew exactly where it was because it was the same place all over the country. So we did that quite effectively and quite efficiently and they're still doing it to this day.
Speaker 4:Established, that program was able to provide work for the inmates as well, which is another thing we got to talk about, you know, reducing recidivism in the factories. They were able to put all those vehicle packages together, ship them out, and we had one factory down in Texas that we would have, maybe, you know, 100 to 200 vehicles sitting outside in the grass area around the prison waiting to come into the factories to be upfitted, to send out. So, you know, great opportunity, great to be a part of that love, that type of work, and it was, you know, like I said, a very, very good experience, you know, learning how to deal with the government. My first experience with GSA. Obviously, even though it was in a little different capacity, I was able to, you know, to kind of learn from that situation as well. I was able to, you know, to kind of learn from that situation as well. But yeah, so it was, you know.
Speaker 4:And then from DC I left there and went back to Estill, south Carolina, where I built the prison, went back there as assistant warden, was over a factory in Unicor there that did refitting for the military under the vehicle division. But we would take all the Humvees that came back from Desert Storm and reset and we would bring those into our factories. We would totally go through those, do a rebuilding engine, all new tires, whatever it needed, and it would reset that back to the depot so they could redeploy those vehicles. We did forklifts that way, pretty much anything we could do to support the fighter. We did that there. That was a great opportunity to be able to save the government tons of money doing that and once again providing these inmates with a lot of work in those factories, which they got paid for, obviously. But yeah, that was a great opportunity there. From that I know I'm talking a lot here. From that point I went to Loretto, pennsylvania.
Speaker 3:I don't want to bore you to death here, and from that I know I'm talking a lot here. From that point I went to Loretto, pennsylvania.
Speaker 4:That's the goal. That's right, I don't want to bore you to death here. Went to Loretto, pennsylvania, to the Federal Correctional Institution up there, and that was in our electronics division. I switched out of vehicular to electronics. That was one of the most profitable factories I was involved in in my tenure with Unicor and we actually had a very, very sophisticated operation up there. It was a low-security institution but we were able to do everything from wiring harnesses for missile command systems, wiring harnesses for M1, a1, abrams tanks.
Speaker 4:We did all kinds of things. There was a communication platform that the military once used called SINGARS, if you've heard of that or not. That was very common. I think they replaced that now. But we did all the SINGARS kits that were shipped out all over the world for the military out of that factory in Loretto, pennsylvania. Put those kits together, radios together, everything ready to go, just kind of plug and play once it got to the warfighter together, radios together, everything ready to go, just kind of plug and play once it got to the warfighter in the field.
Speaker 4:And did that for about I guess about two and a half years up there, very, very profitable, was able to set up a program locally in the Pennsylvania area there to provide the inmates that left my factory immediate employment with companies that were doing the same thing we were doing in the private sector. I actually invited those individuals in to tour our factory. It took me a long time to get them in there because they were very reluctant to come in there and look at a federal prison operation. Once I got them in there and they saw the operation, that we had our QC labs, our training, that we put the inmates through all the things we did the salt impregnation you know the type of testing, heat testing that we did on these parts and components they were amazed and they wanted to hire our inmates immediately upon leaving the institution. So I was able to broker that with the US Probation and these companies to be able to give these guys a job, like I said from day one.
Speaker 2:How great is that that these folks you know they they've done something right and that that winded them up in prison and you know folks screw up but the opportunity to go through that and come out of prison with the opportunity, with a set of skills and the ability to go right to work and be able to be useful for for their community is is.
Speaker 4:It's just wonderful, man. Yeah, it was great. It was, uh, it was one of, you know, one of the first times I was actually felt like we were making a difference up there and with that and, like I said, it was a great opportunity for them and, uh, great opportunity for federal bureau prisons. I mean it was something that worked out great all the way around. So that was good.
Speaker 4:I left Loretto, left the cold northern Pennsylvania, got a call to go to Pollock, louisiana. You know, I went where they told me to go. Basically and typically I went to places where they had issues that needed correcting. So Pollock was one of those areas. It was a federal correctional complex, a US penitentiary there. They had a federal correctional institution there and they had a prison camp, so three facilities on one grounds. So I went to the penitentiary because they had a factory there that was failing. It was losing about a million dollars a month. It was a textile factory of all things. So now I'm switching genres again here, a textile factory of all things. I'm now switching genres again here, but textile factory losing money.
Speaker 4:So I went down there with that task of obviously correcting that issue and I had to bring in. You know, an entire new management had to revamp an entire several production lines, train the inmates, get all that done. So we were able to do that in in about a year um, or a little bit less. Able to turn that in about a year or a little bit less. I was able to turn that around to a profitable operation, actually making a lot of money. At the same time I brought up a factory at the FCI that was brand new at the medium facility with textiles as well, brought that online while I was getting this other factory back in shape, so I was able to do kind of two things at once. After I got both those things fixed, I had the opportunity at that time to switch over as an assistant warden again to the programs, or they call it, the S&E, salaries and expenditures side of the house.
Speaker 4:So getting out of the Unicor organization back into the S&E side of the house organization back into the S&E side of the house, so had the opportunity to do that, which I did and that allowed me to, you know, kind of expand my knowledge base once again. Even as Unicor assistant warden I was supervising education, food service, recreation, that type of thing, facilities, the facilities maintenance department. I supervised that assistant warden but got back on the S&E side of the house and was able to, like I said, expand that supervisory role to encompass, you know, medical services Again had facilities maintenance under my guys and, you know, recreation, education, some of the similar departments, but was able to do that. I was at Pollock for almost five years and that's where I actually ended up retiring out of Pollock. I had been there.
Speaker 4:You know the penitentiary environment is a little bit different. That's like high security. We have a supermax in Colorado. It's not one step below that in the federal prison system. So you know, kind of the worst of the worst, recidivism was very high there. Unfortunately, the population was very difficult to manage. A lot of young individuals in there that were serving you know 20, 22 years or more for drug offenses and you know, to be able to motivate those individuals to get up and make their bed every day and go to work was challenging at best so.
Speaker 4:I was able to navigate through some of that and but you know, five years came, came up. I had my time in um, I was getting, uh, some phone calls from the state of florida, uh, to come down and run a youth prison down there out of lake city, florida, um. So that was kind of interesting. I was kind of putting those calls off, you know, at first, didn't really understand what was going on, didn't really know if I wanted to do that, didn't know who the individual was even calling me. A retired warden friend of mine had told me he said you're getting calls from this company. I said yeah. He said they're trying to give you a job. He said you ought to answer the phone. I said well, maybe I will. Anyway, I ended up answering the call and did that and I was out of Lake City and that was actually kind of interesting, almost like a boot camp.
Speaker 4:18 to 24-year-olds were in there and it was very rigid, very strict. They had very strict schedules. Everybody had to graduate from high school, in that which we provided them that education while we were there, and everybody had to have a trade when they left. So we had vocational training there. That was second to none. I mean, it was just fantastic amount of programs. They're great instructors. We had set up a refrigeration program, hvac had a electrical program there. I had barbering you know of all things program there. We had a food service program there. We had a horticultural program there. So there was a ton of things uh they could choose from and leave with that uh, uh, you know, credential to be able to, to get a job when they left, and we had a very good success rate with that there.
Speaker 2:So when you say youth prison, what? What's that age look like?
Speaker 4:Eight, 18 to 24 is what they called it down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I didn't wouldn't really consider a 24 year old a youth, but that's just kind of how they classified it and when the when they left that youth prison, they would hopefully have a vocation that they could go and and utilize to to make some a living whenever they leave absolutely.
Speaker 4:That was one of the stipulations they had to have before they left. That was that you know judge's order. That's why you're going there, that's why you know you will have it. Um, so, yeah, that's exactly right. Um, yeah, absolutely so worked out great. You know, like I said, I that was where I really saw a difference. You know, in in a prison setting where you made a difference, um, got to meet a lot of the parents there, um, you know, extremely happy, you had a lot of interaction with those individuals. Um, so it was really a, you know, a good uh, opportunity to to afford those young folks and, you know, a different path in life. I should say so, yeah, but I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm just agreeing with you. I mean, that's great that it's changing the trajectory of where these kids are going yeah, yeah, um, again at that institution.
Speaker 4:You know I had responsibility for the facilities for the whole, you know, basic operations side of the house there. So, um, again working directly with the. You know all of our, all of our gentlemen that we had working for us in the maintenance side of the house there. So, again, working directly with you know, all of our gentlemen that we had working for us in the maintenance side of the house, business office, health services, that type of thing. So kind of gained more experience there as I went along in different areas. I left there and the company I work for now.
Speaker 4:I got kind of an oddball call one evening from a friend of mine that I retired with Federal Bureau of Prisons and he had retired and went to work for an operation and maintenance contractor to the federal government and he told me he said, hey, have you ever thought about going to Columbia, south Carolina? No, and I said very little. I said there's nothing in Columbia for me. It's hot, it's like a bowl, it's the hottest place in the state I think you know I said have no desire to go to columbia.
Speaker 4:He said, well, there's opportunity there you may want to think about and you'll get to meet a guy named ryan hudson so, having said all that, I end up calling individual went up to columbia, met the individual and they wanted to offer me a position as a project manager on an operation and maintenance contract located in South Carolina. As it was a started out being a five-year contract, ended up being eight years. We got three renewals after the five years but anyway, basically maintaining all of the or the the majority, I should say, of the federal properties, courthouses, federal office buildings throughout South Carolina Charleston, florence, aiken, columbia and so forth so ended up taking that role. You know that was kind of my forte. I really liked being part of the.
Speaker 4:You know the facilities, workforce because it changed every day. You know something's always different and you always see the fruit of fruit of your labor. You know you get to fix things and repair things and that type of thing. So um did that, went up there, um, and I think that was uh god, what year was that? We started that? I retired 2013, so maybe it was 14, I guess I can't remember exactly when we started that contract, maybe, maybe 16, 2016.
Speaker 2:We started that contract with them, probably met you around then when uh, because I was at carrier corporation back then, so you know before you get into there I kind of. What I like is, is that what you keep hearing, the small windows of your, of opportunities for you to learn efficiency and how to utilize that in oddball places. Like an example who would have thought that you would have had to think through efficiency and logistics with t-shirts for the Kenny Rogers tour? Who would have thought that when you get to a prison system, that you would have the opportunity to think through efficiency and logistics for getting a prison system to where there's manufacturing and then kind of giving these prisoners a second chance to be able to go out and have a vocation where they can earn income and be useful, as we said already, in their society. And now you're in this new tract where again I'm sure you're seeing inefficiencies and you say, hey, I can lean all the way in on this and help the federal government become more efficient.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely there, and not only the federal government but my employer, to be perfectly blunt. When I first got there, I took a look at all of our subcontractor agreements. That's kind of how we got involved with hoffman and hoffman and I said, hey, listen, we can be a whole lot more efficient and, uh, save us some money, save the government some money as well, by renegotiating some of these sub agreements. So at that time we didn't have an agreement with hoffman and hoffman. I think they were doing a few service items or oddball jobs, um. But that's how I met Chevy I know he's supposed to be on a call today. Um, his mother worked for me, ironically, in the office. She was my facility assistant. Yeah, lena, lena made a wolf, um, great lady, uh. So you know, kind of got him involved in some of the things that we were doing and uh started learning the. Not only you know how we could improve upon, uh, upon some of the things that we were doing for the government, but also I learned what Hoffman and Hoffman was capable of, because my guys there at the site we couldn't do everything obviously had some very well-trained individuals in all the fields, but there were some things that we just could not do. And that's where you guys stepped in and filled that role, not only in the HVAC side of the house, but I mean there's a lot of things I brought you in there for you know that were kind of and you probably know this as well as I do some oddball jobs that you were able to do for us, for the government. That would save us some money. But yeah, you know.
Speaker 4:Getting back to the efficiency thing, you're exactly right. I mean you know everything from finding better ways to do things for the government, you know, with utilities, you know monitoring BAS systems effectively and efficiently, so you know we can cut down on those. You know that utility money that the government at the time was very tracking very, very specifically, we actually provide the government a monthly report. We call it a stamp meeting, systems thinking management approach where we provide all the data from total number of PMs we do, total number of service calls we do. We go down each building's utilities gas, electric, water we trend that data for them and present that to them in a PowerPoint presentation along with other data every month, you know. So that was a really, you know, helpful thing, I think, and kind of you know gave them an insight into what they could do, what we were doing for them to save money in the long run.
Speaker 4:You know introducing some small things like LED lighting, which everybody you know the simplest thing in the world. You know able to do some of that systematically at some of these old federal buildings. Getting rid of metal, halide, high pressure sodium. You know thousand watt bulbs out there and it was just. It was crazy Some of the initial savings we were able to do with some simple things like that, you know.
Speaker 2:That's what I like about working with you, jeff, is that there's other people that we've worked in similar situations and the only thing they want is a bandaid, because the bandaid gets them through that year and they can move on, Whereas you, we could come to you and say, hey, yeah, we can bandaid this. But man, if we just did this, if we um and changed it or how it's running, or replaced it you know the life cycle cost on it would would result in this and it would be savings for the government, and you were, you know, so good about being able to navigate those waters to where they're the government. You would even say, wow, this is common sense, let's do this and and get it passed through, and we would make facilities for the better because we just we, we would look at it from that approach yeah, I think I think're right.
Speaker 4:I think it goes back to the partnership. You know the trust you build with the government as an O&M contractor, project manager in there and interacting with the uh, the government entities there, the inspectors. You know the supervisory level staff, um, even the staff in the region in Atlanta, um, you know, once they understand, hey, listen, you know this. This Atlanta, um, you know, once they understand, hey, listen, you know this this individual is not out to to get us. He wants to really, you know, fix these items um and fix them long-term. Then that kind of opens some doors up to, you know, cause, a lot, of, a lot of times it doesn't go that way. You know, um, unfortunately, with some of the contractors out here.
Speaker 2:I think that's the reason why that's the reason why you and your business keep getting asked back to places is because you're not looking at it for the short-term gain. You could have had that five-year contract and said, well, for the five years I'm going to milk this for all I can within reason and then I'm moving on. But instead you said let's do the right thing. I think that the government employees saw that and then they said these are the people we want, not for five years but for eight years. And then I know there's places you guys are in that they don't want anybody else, but you guys, because y'all have proven that you actually care and want to make sure that it's done right the first time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we've had some contracts over 20 years. They just keep renewing and renewing and renewing. And, uh, I think you're right, I think it's based on reputation and the partnership you form while you're there and the trust level. So I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so whenever you're trying to get a contract with the government, so do they put out an RFQ or an RFP request for quote, request for proposal and then you answer that call and put together a bid. And then is there kind of like a honeymoon phase or something like that, to where they kind of see is this the people that we want? And then they sign you on, like how does that work exactly?
Speaker 4:They'll put out an RFP request for proposal and it'll go usually on what used to be called FedBizOps, but it'll go out on that nationwide and then, based on what type of contract it is operation, maintenance, that type of thing you know we'll we decide to bid on that to move forward. There's a notification given to the government. You know, hey, that we're our intent is to bid this project. They'll typically have a what I call a tour day. You know they'll set up a tour of the site so all the prospective bidders come in, walk the site itself. You're able to, most time you'll take pictures and notes. You know different things and that and that, not to belabor the point, that's one thing. That that I started doing a little differently. I think that some of the contractors do, my major subcontractors, like you guys, hoffman and Hoffman and some of the others I bring with me on those tours. You know, because your insight, the staff that you have out there that participate in that Chevy is one, you know, smokes another. Obviously, you know those individuals have a lot of knowledge, far exceeding my knowledge on some of these systems, and I want to hear from them at the end of that tour. Hey, listen, I noticed ABC and D. I noticed this and that you know some of these systems and I want to hear from them at the end of that tour. Hey, listen, I noticed a, b, c and d. I noticed this and that you know because that all goes into my bid process. You know my thought process, my pricing, so I would bring you guys in on those on those tours.
Speaker 4:After that's done, then they set up a schedule. Usually the government will say you know, your uh, first submission, your management plan, is due on this date, the. The management plan would consist obviously of all our staffing, who we're going to have there by title not by name but by title and how we're going to accommodate the contract, that type of thing. Once you get through that phase, if that's accepted, then they typically have a second phase in most of the contracts and that's when you send your pricing in. That's the big phase where the pen meets the paper. So at that point in time, you know we send our pricing in. They've already got our management plan. You know, even some of these contracts even require, you know, a oral presentation, which we just did on one recently. It's about an hour-long powerpoint we put together where I actually had, you know, hopping there as one of our major subs and we answered questions and outlined everything that was about our company and how we do business and our management plan.
Speaker 4:But then, yeah, once that's done, they look at the pricing. There may be a best offer that comes back. They may contact the vendor to say, you know, give me your final, you know best price, sharpen your pencil so they may kick it back. They may go through our process again and do that and then resubmit that. And then you know, once you win the contract, there's as you alluded to, there's a transition period. Typically it's 30 to 60 days, depending on the size or the enormity of the contract, square footage wise.
Speaker 4:But that then allows you to go in and and, uh, not only assess the staff you've got there, because, you got to remember, sometimes we inherit the majority of the time we inherit line staff, you know, usually, bring in my project managers, you know my apm system, project manager, that type of thing, um, typically. But we, we, we love to be able to hire staff that are there, that know the buildings, know the properties, know the equipment. That, just you know, enhances our ability to run this better. So that allows us a honeymoon period or probation period to assess their capabilities in all the trades hvac, plumbing, electrical, general maintenance and sometimes custodial as part of these things too as well. So anyway, after that's done, there's a deliverable schedule the government puts out, and it's a huge Gantt chart listing everything from clearances that have to be done to setting up phones. I mean, it goes into some of the basic steps of onboarding a new contractor.
Speaker 2:But one of the most important parts— how much is price a part of that decision for the government? Like are they going to go with the low bid regardless, even if it's joe's services and they're fly by night? Or like, do they look at your resume and say, hey, you know, jeff's group might be a little bit more expensive, but they provide this, this and this. Like do they measure things like that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it depends on how the contract is. Let there's a low bid, technically acceptable contract we typically don't bid on those. I mean in the past that's. You know, we're not the no-transcript. If that lowest bid met all the technical requirements, they would award that contract to that company. I think you know in the past I've seen where that hasn't worked out like it should. You know, for the government they still do it, but it kind of went away. You know now. So yeah, so on the other contracts, you're right, price goes into that and it's a weighted scale. You know, basically it's your past performance, your pricing, and then you know your technical documents you submit like management plan. It's kind of a three-tier process. They look at all that and they work on some kind of numeric score that they have and they score that as a group, I guess, and then come up with a number and if you're the highest-scoring company you win the contract. Basically, I'm oversimplifying it, of course, but that's how they kind of do that.
Speaker 2:That's good yeah very cool, very cool. So we've gone from uh football to kenny rogers, to warden, to um helping the government become more efficient, and uh, that's very cool. Kelly, you got any questions for for jeff so I'm curious about your current role.
Speaker 3:It's all the building systems that you are bidding for, right, or is it just HVAC?
Speaker 4:No, no, it's a total, all-encompassing contract. So we bid a contract. It's like an operation and maintenance, what they call it. So it's everything Plumbing, electrical, hvac, boilers, chillers, minor repairs, minor renovations, landscaping Wow, all that's wrapped into the contract. So we've got to be able to provide that entire package to the federal government. There's a huge data administrative side of that. You know data keeping, data record keeping, huge. Yeah, there's a program called NCMMS they use to manage all their PMs workflows. That's basically our system. We have individuals that you know are in that system daily. There's a service desk. We got a man where people call in for service calls. They also send emails.
Speaker 4:So it's a pretty huge operation, you know depending on the site or the facility.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you essentially serve as a almost like a GC, like a general contractor right, and then you're dealing with all the subcontractors.
Speaker 4:Yeah, basically. Yeah, we do sub out certain types of work that are, we call it out of our scope of contract that we do.
Speaker 4:You know we're not going to go and build you know a brand new building somewhere, replace a 500-ton chiller. That's something we obviously sub that type of work out. But the PM work, the minor electrical, the HVAC, general day-to-day stuff we do in-house with trained technicians and then we source other technicians or other companies, I should say, to enter into subcontracting agreements with us to provide those other services. Yeah, yeah, interesting. So yeah, my current role is is I'm a director of operations. So I've got for my company the whole Southeast part of the U? S, which now consists of two States, and we're currently hopefully bidding some other projects that may come into play.
Speaker 3:So you know, it strikes me about you that I find absolutely fantastic and wonderful is that you go into every single position looking to to see what you can learn and how you can be better, and you've morphed your own career based on your curiosity. It sounds like it's fantastic it's wonderful Especially.
Speaker 4:yeah, I enjoy what I do and don't know how much longer I'm going to be doing it, but I do enjoy what I do and look forward to each day. Like I said, I love a challenge and I always have and I've been very fortunate so far in my career to have a lot of those. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You took the words right out of my mouth, kelly is that the people who are always successful are the ones that are just simply curious. They say why is it this way, and can we make it better?
Speaker 3:right and can we make it better?
Speaker 4:I love it one thing I hate to hear from my guys is we've always done it this way, though.
Speaker 3:Oh, wait me too, the worst thing you can say to me.
Speaker 2:Don't say that to me ever, no right well, jeff, thank you so much for taking some time with us. Um, I've, as I've told you before and and I've told other folks, uh, whenever I bring you up, I greatly appreciate not just working with you, but also our friendship, and, uh, it's meant a lot to me and, um, yep, enjoy, it's nice when you can work with friends and and I'm privileged to be able to to say that get the chance to work with you and be able to call you a friend as well, jeff yeah, no, thank you guys, and I did those comments.
Speaker 4:It's been a great relationship with uh everyone at hoffman, including you, for many years. Um enjoyed our friendship. Look forward to many more years and uh hopefully uh some more golf down the road? Maybe that's right. How's that golf swing?
Speaker 2:looking these days, she's doing better.
Speaker 3:Good, that means he's playing more golf. That's what that means.
Speaker 2:That's great. Well, good stuff. Well, Kelly, if folks have enjoyed this, what should they do?
Speaker 3:They should like our podcast, subscribe, follow, do all the things.
Speaker 2:Just tell some folks about it, dadgummit, tell some folks Share it. Well, good stuff. Well, I think that puts another one in the can it does. Had a great time and today and uh, thank y'all, thank you bye-bye, guys.
Speaker 4:Have a great day, you too. Bye.
Speaker 1:Took a rocket past Saturn.
Speaker 1:Things don't seem to matter much to me anymore. Got lost inside a daydream, get sick of all schemes they play on their machines. Lost so many words as I got older. You would have thought I was a star. To a man of my middle of order Accidentally wrote these words down, thought all the best of me Faded in an endless sea.
Speaker 1:But you always bring me back. Get your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back. It's your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you To bring back the words inside of me? I drove an hour to see you.
Speaker 1:Things just seemed to matter more to me anyway. Got lost in reality. No answers to cancer. We never got to talk. Lost so many friends as I got older. Wish I had the strength to hold you a little bit longer. I always meant to write these words down, thought all the best of you faded in an endless sea. But you always bring me back into blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed Was to think of you to bring back the words inside of me? You always bring me back at your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the words inside? But you always bring me back at your blue eyes. Twenty years of staring at that freckle on your left shoulder. Who would have thought all I needed was to think of you to bring back the songs inside of me? You were always inside of me. You were always a part of me.
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